There's also something to be said for the style of shirt.

Royal Oxford is a good option.

 

End-on-end. (Don't wear jeans, but would wear with jeans substitutes such as cords and moleskins although not optimal.)

Interesting question, but why the curiosity?

 

Twill looks good with a suit. But not with a twill tie or twill suit, so that makes it tricky.

I like end-on-end, but I think pinpoint is as good and I'd argue it dresses down a hair better.

Royal oxford or herringbone weaves can do a high/low thing well, where they look coherent with formal clothes but sort of interesting with the right casual rig. Like wearing calfskin loafers with jeans, where it can come out balanced and elegant.

But why buy shirts for versatility? There's no advantage to having four pinpoint shirts over two oxfords and two poplins, you know?

 

I prefer linen shirts, and I wear them all year 'round. I tend to be one of those men who starts sweating at 70 degrees, and I've found the linen keeps me cooler.

I own them in a variety of styles and colors, so they work with pretty much any occasion, except for black tie -- and only that I haven't found a linen tuxedo shirt I've liked.

 

@balfour - I'm considering designing/manufacturing some custom fabric and possibly selling it wholesale. one selling point would be fabric that looks good with jeans, slacks or suit. that would be a niche that would pique my interest from a customer perspective. that would maximize the utility and value of the fabric.

 

...
I like end-on-end, but I think pinpoint is as good and I'd argue it dresses down a hair better.
...

For many I agree. I wouldn't wear anything less than end-on-end with a suit and if a compromise had to be made would prefer it to be at the casual end of the spectrum. But between the two it's a matter of preference and your's is a very fair point.

...
But why buy shirts for versatility?...

Quite. As I've posted elsewhere, I like to find things that are optimal rather than go for variety for variety's sake. But I always qualify this by 'optimal for its class'.

Just balance your shirts to your lifestyle, if budget is an issue - if you mainly wear dark suits, then you need more formal shirts (poplin, etc.) with some more casual shirts; if you're mainly dressed casually, then vice versa.

 

@balfour - I'm considering designing/manufacturing some custom fabric and possibly selling it wholesale. one selling point would be fabric that looks good with jeans, slacks or suit. that would be a niche that would pique my interest from a customer perspective. that would maximize the utility and value of the fabric.

You shall be hearing from my people about my consultant's fee. :icon_viking:

 

@balfour - I'm considering designing/manufacturing some custom fabric and
possibly selling it wholesale. one selling point would be fabric that looks good with jeans, slacks or suit. that would be a niche that would pique my interest from a customer perspective. that would maximize the utility and value of the fabric.

I would have thought this a very difficult market to break into.

In the mass market, I would have thought major manufacturers will have arrangements with those that produce with the economies of scale of mass production.

For custom shirts, there are fewer established companies for quality shirting than for quality cloth and I would have thought respectable tailors would be slow to depart from the tried and tested. No respectable tailor is going to recommend that his customers get one type of cloth to take them from the most formal suits to jeans. It will never happen.

What sort of market did you have in mind?

 

details1, before I saw your answer, I thought exactly the same thing - pinpoint oxford. Second for me would be traditional oxford. Tough to do with a more formal business suit but great with blazers and sports coats. When I was a stockbroker, most of us wore pinpoint oxford button downs or broadcloth point collars of various widths and lengths (this was the 70's and 80's). I often left my pinpoint oxford shirts on after work while changing into casual pants.

 

@balfour - I was thinking custom tailors. some of them have their own fabrics made overseas anyway. I would start with the smallest fabric minimum order which seems to be around 1000 yards. I would have 2 or 3 shirts made out of this fabric for myself and then sell the rest.

younger guys are more practical and an all-around shirt is ideal - less shopping time and thought, less money, more closet space. fewer occasions when you're in a pinch because the right shirt to wear is at the cleaners. speaking from my own experience but I think I'm in the 80% on this.

young guys prefer modern fabric designs and many of the custom fabrics I see are not up to par with the latest and greatest designs in the top stores. many of the custom fabrics lack style and artistry or look long in the tooth.

 

@balfour - I was thinking custom tailors. ...

younger guys are more practical and an all-around shirt is ideal - less shopping time and thought, less money, more closet space. fewer occasions when you're in a pinch because the right shirt to wear is at the cleaners. speaking from my own experience but I think I'm in the 80% on this.
...

Hmmm. One could dispute some of the generalities, but the latter (or at least the latter with those preferences) do not tend to use the former. Seems like a small market.

Also, I don't know the economics (and you may well have researched them), but a small run is unlikely to be price competitive, so it seems like a tough sell (especially if fashion forward).

Anyway, that market is not my preference and not my area of expertise, so I'll bow out with that.

 

my main drivers are to understand, identify and create the ideal fabrics for myself

my secondary driver is to get experience in having things made in factories overseas

I do want to at least break even on the cost of the fabric. I've never sold anything to custom tailors but I'm guessing that I can sell 200Y batches here and there if the quality is very good and the price is competitive.

my plan is only in the very early phases but this seems like a reasonable starting point.

 

I think end-on-end looks too dressy for jeans and too casual for a suit. Looks about right for slacks

 

I think end-on-end looks too dressy for jeans and too casual for a suit. Looks about right for slacks

And really there you identify the problem with your thread.

End on end is on the casual end for a suit, but perfectly doable. It works rather nicely with suits is slightly more casual fabrics. It is sub-optimal with cotton trousers other than jeans, but can be managed. As I mentioned above I don't wear jeans.

Again, it just goes to show you will not find a single type of shirting that will work optimally in such varying levels of formality. You asked for 'most versatile'. That is the answer you received.

 

I need to review shirts in my closet as well as order a variety of shirts from top makers at neimans to form a better opinion on the most versatile shirt fabric I have in mind.

 

I went through my closet and found a Turnbull & Asser shirt I bought several years ago. The fabric is very nice. It has very nice structure, drape and feel. Holds a crease well yet doesn't get wrinkled easily. Feels top quality when wearing. Here's a closeup pic:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qebfuqzuz1zx5c0/photo%20jan%2023%2C%202%2030%2037%20pm.png?dl=0

This fabric looks great with jeans, slacks or a suit. Are you familiar with this fabric? I'm assuming that it's a mainstay fabric for T&A. Is this a 2-ply 110's pinpoint? I think I'll use this particular fabric as a reference model for my custom fabric for now.

 

@balfour - I was thinking custom tailors. some of them have their own fabrics made overseas anyway. I would start with the smallest fabric minimum order which seems to be around 1000 yards. I would have 2 or 3 shirts made out of this fabric for myself and then sell the rest.

younger guys are more practical and an all-around shirt is ideal - less shopping time and thought, less money, more closet space. fewer occasions when you're in a pinch because the right shirt to wear is at the cleaners. speaking from my own experience but I think I'm in the 80% on this.

young guys prefer modern fabric designs and many of the custom fabrics I see are not up to par with the latest and greatest designs in the top stores. many of the custom fabrics lack style and artistry or look long in the tooth.

Given that we're mostly long in the tooth here, why are you directing such questions at us in the first place?

Hey, you know what's versatile? Solid sky blue. Go with that.

 

I went through my closet and found a Turnbull & Asser shirt I bought several years ago. The fabric is very nice. It has very nice structure, drape and feel. Holds a crease well yet doesn't get wrinkled easily. Feels top quality when wearing. Here's a closeup pic:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qebfuqzuz1zx5c0/photo jan 23, 2 30 37 pm.png?dl=0

This fabric looks great with jeans, slacks or a suit. Are you familiar with this fabric? I'm assuming that it's a mainstay fabric for T&A. Is this a 2-ply 110's pinpoint? I think I'll use this particular fabric as a reference model for my custom fabric for now.

That's an end-on-end, I believe.

 

Given that we're mostly long in the tooth here, why are you directing such questions at us in the first place?

Hey, you know what's versatile? Solid sky blue. Go with that.

lmao!

 

That's an end-on-end, I believe.

I don't think so. I think you're looking at the colored areas which are colored into formations of tiny rectangles which gives the appearance of an end-on-end in that area.

If you look at the white area you'll see that the area consists of small white dots so I'm assuming pinpoint. Definitely finer than 80's but more structure than 120's so I was guessing maybe 110's.

 

@balfour - I'm considering designing/manufacturing some custom fabric and possibly selling it wholesale. one selling point would be fabric that looks good with jeans, slacks or suit. that would be a niche that would pique my interest from a customer perspective. that would maximize the utility and value of the fabric.

If you get something going let me know, I have a tailor friend in the Atlanta area thinking about starting something, but his main hesitation is getting good quality fabric at a reasonable price.

 

@chris - I set up an email account for the fabric business:

support@ocdfabrics.com

feel free to send me an email or forward my email address to your friend and we'll keep in touch.

 

I... I'm guessing you are under 30... I respect the ambition that is common in folks your age, but I would really encourage you to try to get some commercial knowledge before you try it.

I could be totally wrong - I've seen some millenial companies survive despite gross ignorance - paired with a considerable amount of luck.

But I think a year working for a relevant, established, company might prove very helpful

 

@chris - I updated my email address in my last post thx

 

Broadcloth, I'd say. I was just talking to David Mercer about this the other day, and that is his opinion. A straight-collar white broadcloth shirt is excellent with a suit or sport coat for a dressier look. Unbutton the collar, pull the collar stays and roll the cuffs and it makes a great-looking lightweight shirt with khakis or jeans.

I would second the opinion about why one would need such versatility. I'm a big subscriber to the old maxim, "Variety is the spice of life." I mean, I've got shirts in broadcloth, royal oxford, pinpoint oxford, twill, oxford, end-on-end, chambray and flannel (and I'm probably forgetting some), and I cherish them all.