To illustrate my point - me in a D/B suit . . .

With reference to my previous posting - the suit, BTW, is Polo, bought some five years ago, marked down severely at my local Syms. (The shoes are souvenirs of a recent trip to Buenos Aires - an excellent place to buy leather goods at fair prices.)

https://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00817a202hg7.jpg

 

As compared to how those who chase "current style" look? :icon_scratch:

Dior Homme 2007 Men's Collection:

:idea:

Not a look that will go over well at the CCHS 20 year reunion Alan, wear one of your Oxxfords.

Dear God, that scared me. What the heck is he/she/it wearing anyway?

No sashes in our coming collection, call us out of touch

 

Fashion is never truly timeless, but the architecture . . .

. . . of our bodies is a constant.

I have to agree with yachtie, in the matter of choosing suit styles that favour a wider frame (I am also stockily built, with a proportionately wide face, and big shoulders) - double-breasted suits of all configurations look good on me, and suits with narrow lapels and skinny trousers made me look like an ill-proportioned sausage.

Fashion, in the broadest sense, ultimately, tells of a time and a place, but also states one's status within the society in which one lives, one's lifestyle, and something of one's preferences of all sorts.

Now, that being said, I am still wearing suits that I bought some 10-15 years ago, and they still look fine, if possibly not au courant (having past the half-century mark, I am less worried about appearing au courant, and more worried about not looking a fool).

I'd have to agree that with the switch from frock coats to lounge suits men's style has been fairly stable. That being said, and especially with respect to the 30's style, again if one avoids the extremes of lapel width, gorge height etc., those suits look as good now as then. I think it's a shame when men succumb to fashion vagaries (the 50's narrow lapel and tie look springs to mind) regardless of body type.

I follow a guide that says that the clothes should make me look good regardless of what is "fashionable" at the time. I'm of a fairly large frame with a proportionately large face etc, so I have made/choose suits that have wider lapels and wear wider ties, because they look good on me. Same for things like DB suits vs. SB, 2 vs 3 button, 6x2,6x3,6x1 or 4x1. All may look best on someone and that's what we're looking for IMHO.

 

That's a man? And this is from the Men's Collection?

Straight from the runway pics at GQ. I know; I double checked to make sure it said 'Men's'. I'm with ya, man!

 

As compared to how those who chase "current style" look? :icon_scratch:

Dior Homme 2007 Men's Collection:

That's a man? And this is from the Men's Collection?

 

Most people that chase "timeless style" end up looking like crap 90% of the time.

As compared to how those who chase "current style" look? :icon_scratch:

Dior Homme 2007 Men's Collection:

Cary Grant, I don't know when it's from, but it doesn't matter:

Hmmm. Which one to chase...

:idea:

 

Most people that chase "timeless style" end up looking like crap 90% of the time. We don't live in a vacume, so pretending we do just makes people like that look clownish.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point. I guess it depends on what people consider "timeless style."

 

Most people that chase "timeless style" end up looking like crap 90% of the time. We don't live in a vacume, so pretending we do just makes people like that look clownish.

 

waist band

it just hit me now. the waist band in back pre dates the continuouswaist band.

 

And Chuck's Oxxford suit that demonstrates well how classic cuts endure:

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.

a 3 patch sb was popular for tweeds herring bones and rough cloths. the majority of sport coats were 3 patch. the lapel notch is a half clover leaf.as only the lower corner is round. in a clover leaf both corners are rounded. this one i think is very elegant.

 

It appears there are two separate issues at play in this discussion now -- how long a style will endure and how long a particular suit will last.

 

The lasted about 2 or 3 years being worn once or twice a month. They are now worn once a year at most as "rain" day suits.

I'm still not understanding what you mean by "last." Are you saying your Oxxford suits are "worn out"? How so? What is your criteria for how long a suit "lasts"?

I wouldn't wear a suit that was truly "worn out" no matter what the weather conditions.

 

The lasted about 2 or 3 years being worn once or twice a month. They are now worn once a year at most as "rain" day suits.

 

Eventhough they are at best 70s or 80s wool, they really didn't last that long being worn a couple a times a month.

What do you mean by "didn't last that long"?

 

Oh bull. Muse, mood and the need to create have nothing to do with it. The need for change from a clothing designer's view is to make people buy. That is why designer have a love hate relationship to menswear-they love the classic styles as much as we do, and they love that mens clothing is structured and the traditions, or they love busting up the structure and traditions for fun (it is much more fun to be distructive than creative, even for a creative)-but they hate that men do not like to change.

It's much *EASIER* to be destructive than creative, so it's cheaper fun.

 

But that suit is only 5 decades old Alan, practically this season.

...frankly I like it better than the current models.

 

And Chuck's Oxxford suit that demonstrates well how classic cuts endure:



I'd wear that in a heartbeat.

 

Here's three Oxxford suits from the 1980s:
https://imageshack.us
Eventhough they are at best 70s or 80s wool, they really didn't last that long being worn a couple a times a month.

 

1930

aside from the shoulders and chest did you notice? low peak lapels they dont point to the sky like so many of them today. also the cuffs are cut straight across because they are wide bottoms.

remember the nehru and the leasure suit? they didnt last long. and double knits 2 years max.

 

Thanks for letting us join in your suit purchasing game, forgive my head-smashing emoticon... on a diet and crabby.

LOL. It's hell being hungry all the time. Actually, I didn't start this thread to help with my suit-buying activities, but rather to explore a larger sartorial issue that has interested me for some time--particularly after reading Manton's book. My questions have more to do with what exactly is style in clothes and what is fashion, and how to separate them, along with how much attention needs to be paid to the latter. It seems to me that at least some attention needs to be paid to fashion to avoid looking very unusual to others. How this can be reconciled with principles of enduring style is the issue in my mind.

 

even the what the women wore at the background looks timeless!

 

Button stances to the neck which hide your pretty tie and were recently in vogue are a disaster, just as the 80's Armani "Hey look at my penis everybody" button stance quickly made it's way to the back of the closet.

LOL! :icon_smile_big:

 

(Bold-face mine) All good points, Chuck, and your portfolio analogy is, I think, a really good one. Can you elaborate a little on what you mean by a "classic" suit? For example, should we look for one that has a sort of average lapel width, button stance, gorge height, etc., etc.? What defines "classic" here?

Good question.

While 'middle of the road' hits 90% of it some depends on your individual build. Lapel width should have nothing to do with what some twit designer (not being rude, I'm a twit designer) likes. It should have a LOT to do with how wide your shoulders are.

Exaggerated lapels of any kind are not good.

Button stances to the neck which hide your pretty tie and were recently in vogue are a disaster, just as the 80's Armani "Hey look at my penis everybody" button stance quickly made it's way to the back of the closet.

If'n I was you...
Maybe take a picture and send it to Chris Despos or Alex Di Petripaolo or Leonard and ask them what they think. None of those guys is the type to sneer if it is not their work - they hang around here out of a love for tailoring and will give you solid and sound advice about what cut will ALWAYS work for you and show you off to best advantage.

Thanks for letting us join in your suit purchasing game, forgive my head-smashing emoticon... on a diet and crabby.

 

Having lived longer than all but a small minority of forum participants, I'll just say this: One can argue back and forth about "timeless style, etc." However, I don't feel in the least wistful for the narrow lapel suits and sport coats I acquired in the early sixties, and I had an excellent suit wardrobe that I acquired through inheritance, then quickly ruined by getting enthused about bodybuilding and wearing out the trousers, my only consolation being that they were really much too heavy for the sun belt where I have spent nearly all my life. Even more emphatically, I don't mourn the passing of the ultra-wide lapel look of the 1970s and the accompanying ties. I'd look like a bloody clown in that stuff today! About the oldest "decent" garments I have on active duty are a blazer and a suit (which I bought for my third wedding) dating from around 1993-4. The low button stance on the suit looks a little dated, but it is still an attractive, serviceable garment. By the time the items I am getting today start to look outdated, I trust I shall be too old to worry about it!

 

I'd have to agree that with the switch from frock coats to lounge suits men's style has been fairly stable. That being said, and especially with respect to the 30's style, again if one avoids the extremes of lapel width, gorge height etc., those suits look as good now as then. I think it's a shame when men succumb to fashion vagaries (the 50's narrow lapel and tie look springs to mind) regardless of body type.

I follow a guide that says that the clothes should make me look good regardless of what is "fashionable" at the time. I'm of a fairly large frame with a proportionately large face etc, so I have made/choose suits that have wider lapels and wear wider ties, because they look good on me. Same for things like DB suits vs. SB, 2 vs 3 button, 6x2,6x3,6x1 or 4x1. All may look best on someone and that's what we're looking for IMHO.