Yes.

Agreed. Still the only player in their particular arena, though.

 

Currently? Currently they've been offering serious markdowns. 30% Friends and Family Discount is on at this very moment. They had a 15% off for regular people, 25% off for cardholders sale last month.

Currently, I feel pretty damn good about the place. They're trying like mad to move merchandise, and there are deals to be had.

 

Does the fact you have to really search for a non "made in china or malaysia" label bother anyone else?

That is true that recently Brooks Brothers has been manufacturing their non-iron and classic cotton traditional fit dress shirts in Malaysia and in the past Macau. However, their classic cotton slim fit, luxury fit and luxury fit non-iron, Black Fleece and Golden Fleece and GF non-iron are all Made in the United States of America. Additionally, BB suits are only manufactured in the USA or Italy, with the exception of some Golden Fleece models made in Canada for Brooks Brothers by Samuelsohn. All of Brooks Brothers leather products are made in Italy many from the city of Florence; wallets, belts, card cases, etc., with the exception of their Peal & Co. collection which is made in England. Brooks Brothers Peal & Co. branded shoes are bench made in Northhampton, England by Crockett & Jones, with dress calfskin shoes being manufactured by Alden Edmonds in the USA. They also offer luxury shoe models made in Italy and some made in France by the Paraboot company. Also, BB makes all of their tie offerings in the USA as well. I believe that Brooks Brothers has always used high quality materials and manufacturing processes in making their products and has not deterred from that.

Correction: BB dress calfskin shoes are made in the USA by Alden of New England. Thanks for the info PJC.

 

Hm, maybe a wool/melamine/lead fabric would wear pretty hard.

I think they're gonna get back on-track with their retail goods because people don't want the stigma of non-European goods-and at some price points, you shouldn't. I fully suspect "346" goods will be business-as-usual.

 

Brooks isn't a Holy Grail, but when you start comparing alternatives they offer a very competitive value IMHO. I do try to stay with the Made in the USA items where I can. I like the Select program as well. If you want to spend a lot more you can get better quality, but I think Brooks is pretty much in the knee of the curve. I look at Nordy's brand, LE, JAB, for not much less money the value is much worse in my estimation. Paul Stuart, Ben Silver, etc. are a lot more expensive for not much better quality IME.

There are a few instances where Brooks gets it wrong for me. The other day I was fiddling with a Brooks Select shirt with a tennis collar vs. a Robert Talbott shirt with the medium spread collar. Neither the Brooks Ainsley nor the tennis collar make me completely satisfied and the RT is only about $25 more (less than 10%). I had a "What in the heck am I doing?" moment and swore off Brooks except for the button-down collars which I still like the best.

 

BB

Within the last year I have experienced repeated disappointment with Brook Brothers concerning item quality, item misrepresentation and billing errors. I am hoping that these problems are merely temporary manifestations.

 

The clerk I spoke to at the CT Ave in DC store was super rude to me today. I had what I thought was a simple request, could they tell me if they had material close to these three Brooksease suit jackets I bought that were discontinued or something that would make a good jacket and slacks out of the deal and the guy blew me off telling me I had to have the pants MTM, then walked away. Didn't want to show me anything. I'm in the store in a Brooks Brothers jacket and 346 pants asking about something specific. what? Still not sure what to make of that. Not sure how eager they were to move anything. I literally had to look in the mirror to confirm I wasn't dressed like a country bumpkin- and you know, "wash day, nothing clean" but even though I was wearing my less favorite button down collar dress shirts...

 

That is true that recently Brooks Brothers has been manufacturing their non-iron and classic cotton traditional fit dress shirts in Malaysia and in the past Macau. However, their classic cotton slim fit, luxury fit and luxury fit non-iron, Black Fleece and Golden Fleece and GF non-iron are all Made in the United States of America. Additionally, BB suits are only manufactured in the USA or Italy, with the exception of some Golden Fleece models made in Canada for Brooks Brothers by Samuelsohn. All of Brooks Brothers leather products are made in Italy many from the city of Florence; wallets, belts, card cases, etc., with the exception of their Peal & Co. collection which is made in England. Brooks Brothers Peal & Co. branded shoes are bench made in Northhampton, England by Crockett & Jones, with dress calfskin shoes being manufactured by Alden Edmonds in the USA. They also offer luxury shoe models made in Italy and some made in France by the Paraboot company. Also, BB makes all of their tie offerings in the USA as well. I believe that Brooks Brothers has always used high quality materials and manufacturing processes in making their products and has not deterred from that.

The US-made dress calfskin shoes at The Brothers are made by Alden of New England, not Allen-Edmonds.

Virtually all BB ties are made in the USA, in Long Island City, NY. That includes the "346" ties at the outlets. Staff at my local outlet inform me, FWIW, that the difference between the cheaper 346 ties and the mainline BB ties is the quality of the wool interlinings, plus the amount of handwork.

I got a shock late last year when I ordered a wool/cashmere herringbone Chesterfield BB overcoat and it arrived bearing a "Made in China from Fabric Woven in Italy" label. That said, I can see no problems with the fit, construction, or quality of this garment.

 

The golden age of Brooks Bros. is history.

I would say that the golden age ended around 1977 when it discontinued its bespoke department and closed its suit factory in Long Island City. I have been told by a couple of clothing professionals that its RTW suit at that time was the best on the market.

The company changed ownership a number of times, and it decided to stop manufacturing its own suits and shirts. Instead, the goods were made by outside factories, e.g., Martin Greenfield, Southwick, and the late Norman Hilton. In the golden age almost all its tailored clothing and shirts were made in the USA by either its own factories or outside factories working on Brooks specs.

See the recent article on Brooks Bros.'s tailored clothing on www.filmnoirbuff.com.

Nonetheless, there are still some remnants of its former glory.

E.g.,

1. Its neckties are made in its Long Island City factory. I believe that this is its sole factory.

2. Some of the shirts are still made in the USA at a factory in the south.

3. The shoes are still excellent. Adlen, Crockett & Jones, Alfred Sargent, and some Italians.

I think that the Brooks of the past is history. We will never again have an "all-American" clothier like Brooks which manufactured most of its own goods. (The upper floors of 346 Madison were initially used as workrooms!) Almost every clothier today carries goods made outside the USA whether it be Canada, Italy, China, or Macau.

There is some hope for the future that Brooks might return to being a manufacturer-merchant. Brooks bought Southwick, and it is building a state of the art factory with the viewpoint of turning-out a quality product in both RTW and MTM. Some Brooks people told me that they have big plans for Southwick. Therefore, stay tuned.

 

Someone (Alden Pyle?) posted in the Trad forum about BB and Zegna buying a Scottish mill-maybe Ballantyne. Hopefully this might return woolen garment manufacture (not just weaving) back to UK.

I would still think polo shirts, cotton sweaters and likely linens would still be made in Asia.

 

but the mtm and golden fleece are from martin and i thought u favored him greatly?

 

I think the Gabs I was looking at were made in Canada. Not that in the end it really matters to me where it was made, just that it is good quality for the money. They looked good to me. I ordered 4, we will see.

 

Riding low, and taking on water.

I would place their highpoint in recent history futher back to right after RBA bought them. (Perhaps six years ago?) And I find each season more disappointing. They went back to more interesting/traditional styles when RBA bought them, but like just about every large volume retailer, they want to chase the youth demographic. It appears they intend to accomplish this by shading the merchandise more to a fashionable rather than classic genre. Along with this comes all the delightful folks who procure and manufacture for the fashion industry. Hence, made in XYZ.

But in fairness I must add that globalization and chasing margins by just about all clothing retailers has driven most traditional manufacturing sources out of business. So, it may be too late for them to patronize many of them, even if they wanted to.

 

I think the Gabs I was looking at were made in Canada. Not that in the end it really matters to me where it was made, just that it is good quality for the money. They looked good to me. I ordered 4, we will see.

My experience with Canadian manufactured clothing is that it was often as good as or better than U.S.A. quality. Samuelsohn makes a fine suit.

 

I have to add that I recently got exemplary service at the BB in the Houston Galleria. The associate was very knowledgeable about the suit cuts and various shirts and ties, bnd when they didn't have my size in the traditional fit, he made two calls and got a shirt shipped directly to me and got me the "Brooks Buys" deal +15% off. I did end up buying 3 ties, 3 pocket squares and 3 shirts, so I guess I made it worth his effort. At the same time, I had 2 other associates help me as well, and another one ask if I was being helped!
Also, I overheard a young man asking for ascots! Very unusual...

Mark S.

P.S. I was, however, a little dissapointed that most of the shirts in the store were slim fit, but I'm sure that's what sells these days

 

2. Some of the shirts are still made in the USA at a factory in the south.

There is some hope for the future that Brooks might return to being a manufacturer-merchant. Brooks bought Southwick, and it is building a state of the art factory with the viewpoint of turning-out a quality product in both RTW and MTM. Some Brooks people told me that they have big plans for Southwick. Therefore, stay tuned.

The shirt plant is in Garland, NC. The classic oxfords, the must-iron Luxury shirts, and the GF shirts are made there.

Good point about BB's acquisition and relocation (only within New England!) plus substantial enhancement of Southwick. This shows a real commitment to US manufacture on Claudio del Vecchio's part, IMO. No doubt the folding of Hartz-Oakloom a few years back was a wake-up call that BB was in danger of looking up one day and finding itself w/ no US suppliers left. I think Signor del Vecchio deserves a lot of credit for this.

 

I think you are dead on, I have always wondered what the the old BB suits were like
in terms of todays manufacturers.

 

I have been told by a couple of clothing professionals that its RTW suit at that time was the best on the market.

What was Oxxford like at that time, it is hard to believe that BB was better then them back then. I would love to see pics of suits from that time period

 

I think they are holding strong, I cant speak about years past but I go there regularly and while I dont like their regular RTW shirts in any of the types they make I like just about everything else. I recently bought two of their custom shirts and aside from an interminable lead time they are absolutely excellent. I did buy an 1818 suit from them recently and while its not a major league suit it was still a deal because their recent sales have been fantastic and to the average Joe if you say you are wearing a Brooks Brothers suit it elicits a "wow " (not that it means anything). They have great belts, socks, underwear, ties, accessories and sweaters.

The service I get is great and very knowledgeable and right now the sales are unreal. You can get two 1818 suits for like $1499 and then get 30% off that! last year these suits were $1200 retail per suit. I do know however that the line-up of suits changed in 09 material-wise and I dont know if anything else changed with it like construction. I am seriously considering getting two more of their 1818's with this current deal.

Even their golden fleece stuff is a deal this week if you are inclined.

I see them as pricey with high quality merchandise in general and they have been able to work in some more casual lower end stuff without alienating the traditional clientele which is the real trick and few can pull it off.

 

They are a great source for English shoes, and that's mostly what I get from them. A positive thing about their suits is that they haven't raised the button stance like everyone else. You can get a 2-button suit that buttons at the waist. Though they have fallen into the trend of lower-rise trousers. While their trousers aren't low-rise, they still don't reach my waist and I'm only 5'9". And non-irons have taken over the shirt selection, but I don't care for most of the shirt styles there anyway.

 

I think they are holding strong, I cant speak about years past but I go there regularly and while I dont like their regular RTW shirts in any of the types they make I like just about everything else. I recently bought two of their custom shirts and aside from an interminable lead time they are absolutely excellent. I did buy an 1818 suit from them recently and while its not a major league suit it was still a deal because their recent sales have been fantastic and to the average Joe if you say you are wearing a Brooks Brothers suit it elicits a "wow " (not that it means anything). They have great belts, socks, underwear, ties, accessories and sweaters.

The service I get is great and very knowledgeable and right now the sales are unreal. You can get two 1818 suits for like $1499 and then get 30% off that! last year these suits were $1200 retail per suit. I do know however that the line-up of suits changed in 09 material-wise and I dont know if anything else changed with it like construction. I am seriously considering getting two more of their 1818's with this current deal.

Even their golden fleece stuff is a deal this week if you are inclined.

I see them as pricey with high quality merchandise in general and they have been able to work in some more casual lower end stuff without alienating the traditional clientele which is the real trick and few can pull it off.

Some of the deep discounts are a function no doubt of desperation to get rid of inventory and keep cash flowing in during some very tough times for retail.

Some also represent a de facto unwinding of the hefty price hikes that BB stuck on a bunch of its goods during the last oil spike.

Despite my "made in China" overcoat, I have yet to see an Asian-made suit at BB. What I have seen from Malaysia has been mainly noniron shirts in the regular and Luxury ranges.

 

I've always found their administration and customer service (at least over the phone) to be poor (e.g., you can't tell what items you ordered on a BB credit card statement).

But, I find it a positive trend that more things are being offered in "slim fit," which are hard to find elsewhere. I assume this comes from chasing the youth market, but still works for me...

 

Things are what they are...I will certainly not applaud the observed increase in outsourcing but, do remain a fan of BB. Now that their underwear is no longer produced in Canada, I'm not sure where I will be buying my next supply of (made in North America) undergarments but, for the vast majority of my BB purchases, I am convinced that I still get good value for my clothing dollars spent!

 

Things are what they are...I will certainly not applaud the observed increase in outsourcing but, do remain a fan of BB. Now that their underwear is no longer produced in Canada, I'm not sure where I will be buying my next supply of (made in North America) undergarments but, for the vast majority of my BB purchases, I am convinced that I still get good value for my clothing dollars spent!

I'm a fan of the Made in Canada mercerized undershirts, too. (Luckily I stocked up during a series of Boxing Day sales and so have enough to last me for the next several years.)

Still, I was sorry to see them replaced by the Thailand-made Country Club undershirts. Has anyone tried these? If so, how do they compare to what they supplanted?

 

I think their merchandise is overrpriced, and that they trade on their name and club-like stores.

Many people feel safe buying there..."can't get fired for going wit IBM"