Ok, a female friend asked what the definition of a suit was (this was when I corrected her and told her I wasn't in a suit, but a sportscoat).

I thought the answer was obvious, but then I couldn't quite put it into words. For instance, if a coat, vest, and trousers are made of Donegal tweed, is that a "suit." Likewise, is a blazer a blazer, or is it a "suit" when put together with dress pants?

Is it the fabric? Hmmm....I was surprised that I didn't have a simple definition. Maybe there isn't one and you just know it when you see it? Like explaining the difference between kinds of trees when you don't have technical language, you just know that this is a short tree but that is a tree-like bush.

A suit of more rustic cloth such as tweed, corduroy, twill, etc., is a country suit, also sometimes called a sport suit. Hard to find, and overlooked it is a handsome, practical lower rung of formality, and one of the few suits where all the elements can be worn as separates, and mixed with harmonizing related items.

 

Per OED -Suit- jacket and pants of the same material. think- suit of armor

 

Obviously it means different things in different contexts (e.g. a court proceeding), but in this one:

A "suit" is a set of clothes (at least a jacket and pants) all made of the same fabric.

There is also a more limited subset that (at least in the US) is typically called a "business suit." People often use the word "suit" when they're talking about a business suit, since it's the most common sort of suit.

A coat, vest and trousers made of Donegal Tweed are a suit, but they're not a business suit. In other times and places tweed suits have been worn pretty often. In the US nowadays, not so much.

A blazer isn't a suit when coupled with dress pants (unless the pants are made of the same fabric as the jacket, in which case it's a suit with brass buttons on the jacket, which is kind of weird....).

To go with a more pointed example: take a blue jacket from one suit and wear it with the grey pants from another suit ... what you're wearing is not a suit.

 

Tweed suit done well -

 

Another example:

 

Glencheck

Try flannel or tweed in prince of Wales check or glen ccheck

 

It's possible to have a suit where all the pieces don't match. For example, there is the stroller where the coat is black and the pants are grey. The vest may be one or the other or even buff but it's still a semi-formal 'suit'. Most of the time, however, whenever you have a jacket and a pair of pants of the same material, it's a suit. The 'correct' name is lounge suit. An odd vest doesn't change anything and can look quite spiffy while still being a suit.

Quibbling about 'country' suits vs. 'city' suits vs. 'business' suits are just that quibbling. No matter the material (and I've seen some horrendous examples) whenever the coat and pants match, it's a suit.

 

So if I have on grey dress pants and donegal tweed jacket and vest, it's a suit or not?

 

So. if I have on a brown donegal jacket and mathcing vest, but dress pants of a different color or tweed, is that a suit or not. Seems Oldsarge would say yes, but others might say no? Right?

 

The stroller is not a suit. You can call it an ensemble, an outfit or a uniform, but because it doesn't match it's not a suit. But I don't know if you can consider a matching jacket and waistcoat a suit, but I wouldn't.

 

^I would say that a matching jacket and vest with odd trousers do not constitute a "suit." Matching jacket and trousers with a non-matching vest would, however. Morning attire and stroller ensembles do not constitute "suits," properly speaking, pace Olsarge.

 

Many years ago, when the frock coat began to be replaced, the morning coat (aka cutaway) was worn with matching pants and the ensemble was called a morning suit. Soon thereafter the matching pants were replaced by striped pants and the ensemble lost the "suit" designation.

 

Yes. If the jacket and pants match, it's a suit. If they don't, it's not. A suit can also have a matching vest, but adding a non-matching vest doesn't make it stop being a suit, any more than adding a non-matching shirt makes it stop being a suit.

The distinction between a suit (in the general sense) and a business suit is scarcely a quibble.

Generally speaking, if an invitation or business meeting or whatever specifies that you should wear "suit and tie" (which is increasingly rare) it means a business suit, and a tweed suit isn't any more appopriate than a sport coat would be. Back in the day, if you wore a tweed suit (or a sportcoat) to work at a "white shoe" law firm, you'd get sent home to change clothes.

 

To add to the confusion some manufacturers (who should know better) and marketers (who don't have a clue) HAVE begun calling a sport coat a "blazer". I won't attempt to define "blazer" completely, but generally they have metal buttons and are a solid color, blue,green, black, maroon, tan.
There are English style blazers too with stripes. A tweed sport coat is not a "blazer".

 

Terms evolve, as does clothing. The contemporary definition of the term suit is a matching jacket and pants, irrespective of the cloth of the vest if there is one. It was not always so. When the term lounge suit first began to be used, illustrations depicting them would often carry the explanation that it had matching trousers, indicating that it could not be assumed. But over roughly the last 75 years, lounge suits became known simply as suits and it was understood that the cloth of jackets and trousers was the same. Jackets that did not match became known as odd jackets in England and sport coats in the U.S.

 

Jackets that did not match became known as odd jackets in England and sport coats in the U.S.

Nowadays (except for blazers) they are universally known in the UK as sports jackets, though of course the term could have had an American origin.

 

Yes. If the jacket and pants match, it's a suit. If they don't, it's not. A suit can also have a matching vest, but adding a non-matching vest doesn't make it stop being a suit, any more than adding a non-matching shirt makes it stop being a suit.

The distinction between a suit (in the general sense) and a business suit is scarcely a quibble.

Generally speaking, if an invitation or business meeting or whatever specifies that you should wear "suit and tie" (which is increasingly rare) it means a business suit, and a tweed suit isn't any more appopriate than a sport coat would be. Back in the day, if you wore a tweed suit (or a sportcoat) to work at a "white shoe" law firm, you'd get sent home to change clothes.

What's "white shoe" then? I'm thinking New Orleans...

 

Nowadays (except for blazers) they are universally known in the UK as sports jackets, though of course the term could have had an American origin.

Really? Then the term 'odd jacket' is one used solely by sartorialists and denizens of internet mens fashion fora. Not to worry, I intend to use the term Sport Jacket to mean those countryside jackets made of tweed or Cosentino cloth and cut for outdoorsy activities. Blazers are odd jackets with metal buttons and everything else is an odd jacket unless the trousers match. Then it's a suit.

And I still maintain that the ensemble known as a stroller is a suit!

 

Plenty of sport coats or sport jackets (if you prefer) are neither blazers nor specifically "countryside." I have several, even ruling out "faux tweeds" like Porter & Harding Solway and Glorious Twelfth or Hardy's Alsport Worsted.

 

odd jacket

It's a gosh-darn sport coat! :icon_headagainstwal