At 71 I do so miss a casual jacket and tie look. In my early 60's I lost 100 pds, discovered a Ivy/Trad look. A consignment shop had a lot of what I wanted. It had a lot of Brooks, Nordstrum, CT shirts I never saw before. When my wife retired, she got rid of her business and fun blazers. SARS-Covid and we didn't go to plays and musicals anymore. I wear a SC to Doctor's and Jacket and tie when I deliver Christmas chocolates. Only my doctor and Seamstress now, too many business closures.

 

At 73 and living on the east coast of Florida, people here ask why am I dressed up if I wear trousers and an OCBD. After 30 years in finance (NYC and London), my wardrobe is depleted to 1 navy blue suit and 3 sport coats that I wear to church.
Am considering the purchase of a suit for the wedding of my best friend's daughter but realize that I may only wear it on that one occasion.
Long gone are the days of shopping at Gorsarts (a lifesaver for recent college grads on Wall Street),Brooks, Paul Stuart, JPress, Chipp, etc.
Thankfully there are folks like you that share my interest (or is it obsession) in men's clothing.

 

Your reference to finance got me reminiscing. I was at Texas Commerce in Houston in the seventies and eighties. The loan officers and "deal guys" dressed from Norton Ditto. I was a lawyer, and it was 100% Brooks for me. I wore the lawyers' uniform of shell Alden for Brooks tassel loafers; 3 roll 2 Makers suits; blue, white, or pink OCBDs, and a vast array of ties that included bowties. It was a huge change from shopping brands in prep school. Now that Brooks has been dead lo these many years, it is fun getting back to brands. I enjoy developing brand loyalty after hunting down what is best for me. I truly hope the athleisure set will find the joy I have found. I also hope that a new generation will discover they need far fewer items, making it possible to pay MiUSA prices instead of throw away clothing prices.

On a related tangent, I wonder how many items of each sort constitute "enough." You can dress well for most occasions without needing so many things that your closet is wedged tight. Of course, however, there is no such thing as too many ties, especially bowties.

 

I am 76 and live in Austin. I have lived on all three coasts (east, west, and gulf). When I visit the places of my youth, it is sad not to find good stores. Most people I encounter are slobs. Austin feels quite small compared to the other cities in which I have lived, but being a state government town, it has a lot of people who wear suits. I wear what I want. If it is the least bit dressy, like a bowtie and a jacket, I get compliments. There are still a lot of people who can recognize nice clothing. All sorts of stores, not just men's clothing stores, are fading away, and pretty much everyone shops online. I may not have hope for a return to Ivy, but I am hopeful that people will dress better, wearing more natural fibers, as they learn more about how pulling on athleisure is making them ingest loads of microplastics. I think the best way to be good messengers is by showing how nice, natural fiber clothing can be affordable and comfortable. You learn pretty quickly that you can be accepted in nice clothing.

 

It is interesting how sales people are nicer when you are in a Tie and Jacket.

 

It is, but the way a store treats the outwardly less distinguished says a lot about it. I remember, many years ago, going into Tiffany in Houston wearing, on purpose, an untucked Izod, tennis shorts, and Doctor Scholl's wooden bottomed sandals. I received excellent service, made a purchase, and was a loyal customer of both Tiffany and that particular salesperson for as long as we lived in Houston. On return trips I was well dressed.

 

At 62 I can dress how I want. And that’s the way I look at it. I always want to look presentable. I would say the weather is the main barrier around here for me though. As for the general public, sad to say obesity in this country is at an all time high. Then with the disgusting tattoo and piercing craze is it any wonder most don hobo outfits to match their appearance? Feel like garbage may as well look like garbage. So many have no pride.

 

I agree I'm 51 and I like to dress how I want, I always like you enjoy looking presentable.

 

Good topic i like it "Rare and dying breed"

 

I'm personally trying to convert people, person by person. I start with a comment about how differently people treat you when you're well-dressed. Once that seed is planted, I look for opportunities to reinforce it. That's me, making a difference, one person at a time. When I travel by plane, always a sport coat. Same for Dr's office, or restaurant. It's true; people treat you differently when you dress well. More polite, more respectful, more accommodating. It's magic!

 

Agreed.

 

I have been watching uTube videos about shoes, men's and women's styling. I also read online forums. It becomes a matter of how I wish to present myself to the world. Also dressing well is an art form. I don't mean gaudy. Be classy. Retired now, but as a photographer, appearances are important to me. It is true, as we get older, we probably do not need as many clothes and shoes as we once did.

 

All true, but what is driving this ?

I surmise there is something more than moral weakness going on.

I read that the wealthy in for example NYC, used to live in townhouses right on the street. But now they wish that their wealth is not on display, and they tend to want to live in secluded privacy.

I'm trying to think if I read this in the book "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System". A fascinating book recommended by a member here several years back.

So I just wonder if there is some kind of social pressure. Or if economics has contributed. Eg. going from a society where typically a wife would stay at home and care for the house and kids and possibly get laundering organized, etc.

Just throwing it out there. Like so many other things that have changed in our society, can we blame it on moral failing as if people are living in a vacuum?

I suppose that is a question for the sociologists.

Cheers everyone !

 

All true, but what is driving this ?

I surmise there is something more than moral weakness going on.

I read that the wealthy in for example NYC, used to live in townhouses right on the street. But now they wish that their wealth is not on display, and they tend to want to live in secluded privacy.

I'm trying to think if I read this in the book "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System". A fascinating book recommended by a member here several years back.

So I just wonder if there is some kind of social pressure. Or if economics has contributed. Eg. going from a society where typically a wife would stay at home and care for the house and kids and possibly get laundering organized, etc.

Just throwing it out there. Like so many other things that have changed in our society, can we blame in on moral failing as if people are living in a vacuum?

I suppose that is a question for the sociologists.

Cheers everyone !

I think if you offer someone something in the vein of athleisure that is more comfortable than the conventional clothing they used to wear, offer it at a low price, and hint that the logo, likely sports oriented, will make them a tiny bit more cool, they will buy it. They may not even know about microplastics and certainly do not care. They probably have zero or close to zero experience with natural fibers. They have never worn a sack suit or jacket, a wool sweater, a full cut OCBD, or a pair of high quality, well fitting leather shoes with leather soles. They have no reason to think their outfit of workout gear is suboptimal. Even if they stop short of going the full blown athleisure route and stick with Dockers, a polyester polo, and a pair of Skechers, the same principles apply. It is almost unimaginable that you can convince them to pay more, probably a lot more, for clothing no one they know wears, clothing that is never in style, clothing that requires maintenance, clothing that will last a long time, ensuring they will stay out of step with their mainstream peers.

And then there is the issue of our bodies. Stretch clothing is one solution, tailoring is another, and then there is the prospect of healthy eating and exercise. Which one will most pick?

In order to buy into something outside the norm requires thoughtfulness and confidence, two things that are in short supply. It is not really a classic moral failing, but it is symptomatic of indifference to the world, and that can be viewed as a moral failing of large proportions.

My final thought is about class. Our society is stratified in new and different ways. The future will possibly have more Amazon workers, more service sector workers, wealthier owners of large businesses, and less in between. How will clothing play into this?

 

Still actively employed at 66, I wear a blazer every day after 30 plus years of suit and tie.

I manage commercial property across NYS and I remember taking an intern of our firm through an office building. We walked basically everywhere I wanted with the various companies employees looking at us but not reacting as in "what are you doing here walking through our office unattended"?

During our curbside chat he expressed amazement that no one stopped or questioned us.

I told him the that there are only two people who can walk through a place of business unmolested: Being well dressed or carrying a ladder.

 

I live in Georgia and 90% of the population here dress like hobos and slobs. They don't even dress well for church. The only people who dress nice are lawyers going to court. I have a huge wardrobe of sport coats ties and fine leather shoes but often times friends and family greet me with "you think you're better than us" any time I try to dress nice. Sometimes I feel like it's hopeless.

 

Wait. What?

"You think you're better than us" is a criticism?

I had always presumed it to be a bald statement of fact. 😉

 

On a side note: I walked thru a building of lots of office women till I got back to the Manager's office. He asked how I got back there, on my tool belt was a telephone handset, women just pointed to the back utility room.

 

Still actively employed at 66, I wear a blazer every day after 30 plus years of suit and tie.

I manage commercial property across NYS and I remember taking an intern of our firm through an office building. We walked basically everywhere I wanted with the various companies employees looking at us but not reacting as in "what are you doing here walking through our office unattended"?

During our curbside chat he expressed amazement that no one stopped or questioned us.

I told him the that there are only two people who can walk through a place of business unmolested: Being well dressed or carrying a ladder.

Still actively employed at 66, I wear a blazer every day after 30 plus years of suit and tie.

I manage commercial property across NYS and I remember taking an intern of our firm through an office building. We walked basically everywhere I wanted with the various companies employees looking at us but not reacting as in "what are you doing here walking through our office unattended"?

During our curbside chat he expressed amazement that no one stopped or questioned us.

I told him the that there are only two people who can walk through a place of business unmolested: Being well dressed or carrying a ladder.

…or a clipboard.

 

I just realized that I have been a member here for almost 20 years. Few members of that time are still around and posting. My wife and I moved into a retirement community here in Asheville three years ago this week. I was a university administrator for 35 years prior to that. Since being here, among largely successful and well educated people, there are only a few of the men who seem to have any sense of or care for dressing nicely. Many women do and it nice to see well turned out ladies. My usual daily wear includes khakis, either polo in warmer weather or an OCBD in cooler temps, leather shoes, (usually Alden or Rancourt loafers of some sort) and sweaters, decent coats or jackets in cold weather etc. I think I can count on one hand others who seem to follow a similar path. We do mingle daily at meals, various gatherings etc and very prominent are hiking pants, jeans, tee shirts, various sorts of running shoes or hiking shoes and generally a much more informal dress. I posted recently here about the 50th anniversary of the Givens Retirement Community where we live and that at the 50th anniversary party, I and one other resident wore a sport coat. I find that sad.

What I do not understand is why the vast majority of other men here do not seem to care how they present themselves. Most all residents have had successful careers in education, the ministry, business or other more professional endeavors. I'm just amazed at the seemingly uncaring about how folks present themselves even on special occasions. I recall seeing a post early in my time on this forum about the decline in small higher quality mens stores and I do know that trend continues here almost 20 years later. Hunter and Coggins in Asheville, Eljos in Charlottesville and a goodly number of others add to that original list that was posted 20 years ago.

Any thoughts by current members would be most welcome and I always enjoy seeing new (non bot) members and welcoming kindred souls.!
Tom

I'm closing in on 20 years here. Sorry we never met in person--we were only a few miles apart. I spotted you once at the Best Caller a few years ago, but you were gone before I got a chance. If you've not been back to Boone recently, you will find the congestion and construction almost beyond belief.
I am still practicing geriatric medicine halftime. Office only. I still wear a tie to work--mainly because I have for almost 50 years and probably have a couple of hundred. And I still wear mostly AEs and Aldens all bought on Ebay 10 years ago. I still have 3 pairs of AE PAs in my shoe tree test. One fully treed, one left treed and one right treed. I wear them in rotation and after several hundred wearings I see no real benefit from trees.
Folks just don't dress up anymore. I have half-a-dozen suits that might still fit, but I never have occassion to wear a suit. Most of my country club events list the dress as "Country Club Casual" that is "Jacket no tie." I wear black tie once or twice a year.
We have truly lived through several golden ages. And now I go to put on all white--at least there is still a dress code for croquet...
Hope you have a couple of croquet coutrs in Asheville

 

Dr Davant, it'n nice to hear from you again as well. I too am sorry we never met in person. My life here is pretty good. I do understand that Boone is continuing to grow and that John Winkler is taking over BR as he has Boone. That's where a good deal of the congestion is coming from. I do not get back to Boone much although my granddaughter is a rising Sophomore at ASU. She's from Texas and is the G granddaughter of the people who named Yosef in the 1940's. My wife has had various health issues and I find myself as primary care giver so we do not travel much. While we do not have any croquet courts here at Givens, we do have a pretty active pickleball and Bocce programs. I'm pretty much still a clothes nut and just received a long awaited pair of Rancourt bit loafers and have a Press Prince of Wales sport coat on order. Given that, I have only worn a jacket a few times since being here but we do have season tickets for the upcoming Asheville Symphony series, so I'm prepared. Glad you are still enjoying practicing. If you ever get the chance to encourage some folks to develop a CCRC in Boone/BR, I think it would fill up with ASU retirees and others very quickly. We are in Asheville due to the very fact that there is no equivalent in that area.
Stay well and thanks again for saying Hello.
Tom

 

What I do not understand is why the vast majority of other men do not seem to care how they present themselves.

I don't grasp this either.

It doesn't even take much effort. Get a haircut once a month. Shave or trim your facial hair. Have basic hygiene. And have a few button shirts (not just graphic t's).

Women are expected to put in 10x as much effort (hair, makeup, etc) and lots of men can't even do the bare minimum.

 

So who expects women to do 10x?

 

I actually had one of my golfing partners tell me that I looked like a J Crew ad yesterday! While I wasn't actually wearing anything J Crew, I still took it as a compliment. Since I'm in a rural area, I also get the "thinks he's better than us" vibe sometime, but I don't care much about that. I have yard work clothes too; I just don't wear them in public.

 

You're right - just a few extra spaces. My apologies.

 

Agreed.

Still actively employed at 66, I wear a blazer every day after 30 plus years of suit and tie.

I manage commercial property across NYS and I remember taking an intern of our firm through an office building. We walked basically everywhere I wanted with the various companies employees looking at us but not reacting as in "what are you doing here walking through our office unattended"?

During our curbside chat he expressed amazement that no one stopped or questioned us.

I told him the that there are only two people who can walk through a place of business unmolested: Being well dressed or carrying a ladder.

All i lack is a ladder! You can also carry a clipboard. I walked around many times in the Air Force with a clipboard and a cup of coffee and people thought I was working.

 

I didn't mean to open the hornet's nest. I'm just making the point that men can look really good even with a little bit of effort.

Like wearing a solid neutral color tshirt + overshirt instead of a graphic tee. Matching the belt and shoes. etc. etc.

 

I didn't mean to open the hornet's nest. I'm just making the point that men can look really good even with a little bit of effort.

Like wearing a solid neutral color tshirt + overshirt instead of a graphic tee. Matching the belt and shoes. etc. etc.

If you're wearing white (or off-white) shoes, what colour should your belt be?

 

I like this line of thinking. So what are some of these basics? The etc. etc's? You listed 2 good ones. Can we start a list of these rules of thumb? Or maybe I should start this as a new conversation....

 

I think it's on topic. For the average guy trying to be a little bit more elevated, I would recommend:

Fit

• Take your measurements. Wear clothes that fit (and you can freely move your arms/legs around them)

Colors

• Get solid neutral-color T shirts (black, white, cream, grey)
• Get your essential clothes in neutral colors so they're versatile
• Limit yourself to 2 non-neutral colors.
• Try not to get too much of the same color. For example, instead of having 8 pairs of blue jeans, you could do 1 black, 1 light grey, 1 dark grey, 1 blue, 1 light blue, etc.

Overall Tips

• Get rid of the graphic t's athletic wear, sports jerseys, heavily branded clothes, etc.
• Wear two-layers (i.e. shirt + jacket or undershirt + overshirt)
• You don't need to be dressy everyday, but at least have a few buttondowns and a pair of smart shoes.

Accessories

• 2-4 small tasteful accessories (i.e. necklace, watch, bracelet, earrings, etc.).

^ A lot of this is really basic stuff that anyone can wear in day to day life. You don't need to spend a ton of money.

 

Fair point, Havotnik. But I guess, for most case scenarios for the average person: Brown w/ brown. Black w/ black.

For me the decision is easy since I only own black belts and black dress shoes. I'm a goth lol

 

The only time in my life I wore a white belt the United States Navy made me do it.

 

I wore a white one in the navy back in the 80's too, and may or may not have worn one in the 70's as a kid. Lots of questionable fashion choices in the 70's. I don't remember a white belt specifically, but I did have a brown one, extra wide, with 3 prongs for extra holding power I guess. Stylish....

 

I thought about it when I starting wearing white denim, right now it is a off-white woven belt with brown leather ends.

 

My favorite combination with white 501s is a Breton red surcingle from Eliza B/Leather Man and a blue and white gingham shirt.

 

53 and still working. About a year ago I decided to dress in the way I am most comfortable, which for me is either a suit, blazer, pants, and tie, or sweater and tie. I have a job where I can get away with this as I’m a director and a healthcare organization.

The attire that I see in our organization amongst leadership very significantly. However, most of our senior leaders do still dress formally, neatly, and with a gentle degree of sophistication.

All is not lost, but the winds of change are still not blowing in our direction yet.

 

I have been an Ask Andy member for more years than I can remember - I am 86. I joined at the personal invitation of Andy. He walked into Chipp , introduced himself to me, and asked me to join.
We spoke a number of times through the years.
I have gone from my days in NYC where everyone in advertising, law, banking, or you name it wore a suit and tie to work, to my personal move to NJ 21 years ago where some restaurants still had " Jacket and Tie required" signs on the door to the present where those same restaurant welcome you on a Saturday nite - if you can get a reservation - wearing a sweat shirt and dirty sneakers.
What is important is for each individual ,in terms of clothing, is to do what is important to them. If dressing in a certain way makes you feel good, you should.
The followers of the Andy forum care more than the public at large.
My wife of 59 years thinks everything I create in my tie business is stupid and in poor taste. I do it because I think it is funny. I do it for myself.
Life is full of choices - do you look better in a spread collar or a BD, do you prefer meat sauce or calm sauce, do you believe in a supreme being, do you lean to one candidate or the other -
What ever you think, MAYBE YOU ARE WRONG