The issue is not plain/pleated front (properly cut pleated pants flatter all, all, ALL men, but there is no rule that says you must wear them with WT), but having appropriate rise. A tailcoat is going to end at your waist. If your pants do not rise to meet it, you will have an ungainly band of white beneath your coat and trousers. Very, very few modern OTR pants are going to have that kind of rise, and even fewer of them will have FF's.

 

CuffDaddy, can you please change your screen name to PleatsDaddy?
Yes, I believe that white tie trousers traditionally have pleats because they should be EXCEPTIONALLY high-waisted.

 

Plain front is hardly the question--indeed, at one time, it was the only option:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/History/19th_Century/1893_British_resized.jpg

If the trousers are cut from the same cloth as the tailcoat, then go for it. Otherwise, bite the bullet and get the new trousers. Pleats flatter the athletic figure perfectly well, despite what the hacks at GQ may think.

As for the notch lapel, while less than ideal, there is some rather dashing precedent:

If you haven't found a white-tie shirt yet, here are the options I know of:
https://www.magnoliclothiers.com/tuxedo-shirt-shirts-p-123.html
https://membership.brooksbrothers.c...443&Parent_Id=1032&default_color=WHITE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=15 32

 

Herr Von Trapp to spoil my whole formal world... I still think peak is the way to go. I have the smaller details of the kit down, as even if I was renting the jacket/pants I didnt' want to look like a waiter in an attached collar shirt and clip on bow tie, so I have a BB GF formal shirt, Grafton collar, BB marcella bow tie, Thurston braces, and an appropriate studs and some very classy cufflinks... I really just need a tailcoat that won't look rented and I guess now some pleated pants.

thanks to everyone for the advice

 

I think you are right to concentrate on accuracy here. Pleats are not that important in the whole scheme of things as long as your lapels are peaks, your waistcoat agrees with your trousers and tailcoat, etc.

 

IMHO, reverse pleats look terrible with white tie. Most traditionally the trousers should be flat front or forward pleated. Look at this picture:


Apart from Bush's terrible fit, the reverse pleats don't give the elegant drape that Prince Philip's forward pleats do.

 

I personally prefer trousers without pleats for white tie; even when cut well, I think they don't possess the sharpness eveningwear should have. That said, what works for me might not work for anyone else; I'm also not fond of creases on trousers for white tie...

I think you are right to concentrate on accuracy here. Pleats are not that important in the whole scheme of things as long as your lapels are peaks, your waistcoat agrees with your trousers and tailcoat, etc.

As has been said in other threads, while having a waistcoat that's cut correctly is extremely important, and so ignored by so many people, peak lapels are not nearly so important, and are by no means the only correct lapels.

 

Apart from Bush's terrible fit, the reverse pleats don't give the elegant drape that Prince Philip's forward pleats do.

I'd blame the fit first. Prince Philip's is doubtless bespoke, while Bush's is doubtless rented.

 

Yes, I hadn't seen that dreadful photo for a while -- what a nightmare!

It always gripes my liver to see a president dressed like a chuckle-head! However, the First Lady always looked nice...

 

As has been said in other threads, while having a waistcoat that's cut correctly is extremely important, and so ignored by so many people, peak lapels are not nearly so important, and are by no means the only correct lapels.

Oh, they are to us die-hards. It is the second thing we look at after the waistcoat length has been assessed, then after that the collar and bow tie then cuffs then shoes... :teacha:

 

Yes, I hadn't seen that dreadful photo for a while -- what a nightmare!

It always gripes my liver to see a president dressed like a chuckle-head! However, the First Lady always looked nice...

It always gripes my liver to see this president! My apologies for being off-topic...

 

Oh, they are to us die-hards. It is the second thing we look at after the waistcoat length has been assessed, then after that the collar and bow tie then cuffs then shoes... :teacha:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by die-hard, then. When evening fashions weren't frozen, most of those other things were stable, but fashionable lapel styles changed frequently.

 

It always gripes my liver to see this president! My apologies for being off-topic...

Yes, well, we won't speculate on what the Prince may have been thinking, but I try to avoid any emotional influences in consideration of affairs of government, state, military, etc., - it is bad for the blood pressure.

And back on topic: A permanent civil service valet position at the White House would prevent these sorts of continuing outrages against good taste!

 

It is great to hear that pleat-less will look as dashing... I respect that lapel styles change, and that the majority of DJ sold today are probably notch, but blacktieguide.com makes no mention that a notch lapel would be an acceptable option in a white tie setting, and I believe the only thing that could make Mr. Bush look worse would be if his lapels were notch. I did have a chance to meet Laura Bush this past week and she was indeed dressed well.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by die-hard, then. When evening fashions weren't frozen, most of those other things were stable, but fashionable lapel styles changed frequently.

That is true in the past but most style experts agree that today's top formal dress codes (i.e. full morning and evening dress) demands peaks given that in the past people wore these styles of dress far more frequently and at many occasions thus there would be a need of different cuts depending on situation and formality and given that in this day and age these styles of dress are very confined and limited to the most formal situations it must thus be inclined to take the most formal form of said style of dress given said form of dress' restricted nature.

If you don't want peaks, the shawl is the next best thing (I've seen examples of this and it is used in military evening dress thus an acceptable alternative). Notches shouldn't even be considered regardless of whether it was used in the past or not (I won't go into an argument cycle on this as we all know why).

 

That is true in the past but most style experts agree that today's top formal dress codes (i.e. full morning and evening dress) demands peaks given that in the past people wore these styles of dress far more frequently and at many occasions thus there would be a need of different cuts depending on situation and formality and given that in this day and age these styles of dress are very confined and limited to the most formal situations it must thus be inclined to take the most formal form of said style of dress given said form of dress' restricted nature.

Some of us do need to wear them frequently; this is the first week in a quite a while where I haven't needed to wear evening dress, and I need to wear morning dress tomorrow, and evening dress again next weekend. In such a situation, one needs to be able to have variations, and also different levels of formality. And while I know people around me won't question what I wear, it's a bit frustrating when forumites present as universal rules that are more accurately presented as rules for if one only has a single coat for a particular sort of dress.

If you don't want peaks, the shawl is the next best thing (I've seen examples of this and it is used in military evening dress thus an acceptable alternative). Notches shouldn't even be considered regardless of whether it was used in the past or not (I won't go into an argument cycle on this as we all know why).

I will agree that notches aren't really advisable; I don't actually have any evening coats with notch lapels. I like shawl evening coats, though: they look quite clean. There are also, of course, a number of different variations on peak lapels, and it's very unlikely that I would wear a regular notch lapel.

 

I, as many others here, barely wear full-dress enough to really necessitate a white-tie kit, but want one because I do not like shelling out over $100 per rental for an unflattering fit and subpar finishing. My statement that the (only) tailcoat that JAB carries is a notch, and how strange that was to me.