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In Praise of the Notch-Lapel Tuxedo

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83K views 193 replies 43 participants last post by  Mr. A.  
#1 · (Edited)
This won't be a popular position on this board, but I trust any discussion about it will be in good taste. Right?!

Time and again members post about how 'terrible' or even 'dreadful' a NLDJ looks, and misguided members sometimes even speak of how 'incorrect' it is. Typically what one finds is a begrudging acceptance of its existence, whilst denigrating anyone so attired.

And I'm here to say Enough! Notch Lapel Wearers of the World, Unite! C'mon...you know who you are...:icon_smile_big:

You see, I recently purchased a new tuxedo, and was faced with the lapel decision, as Brooks Brothers offers all three. (Gasp!...) Now, I've owned three tuxedoes in my life. The first was a peak lapel because I was in school and it was the only one I could afford. The second was a notch, because it was the only one in stock and I was in a hurry. But this purchase was restricted by neither time nor money, given the identical price of all three choices. And it was an informed choice made long after I began lurking here. So which did I choose? It was quite simple, actually. I went with the best-looking option: the notch. (Let us now pause so that I may don my asbestos boxer sh0rts against the flames.)

When I bought my first, I remember looking at the peak lapels and thinking they were the 'classic' choice, but something just seemed odd about them. First off was the huge expanse of satin across my chest, which I really didn't care for. Second was the overly-sharp angles of the lapel, made even more so by the juxtaposition of fabrics. And lastly was the unavoidable fact that the lapels were pointing away from my face! ("Hey...stop looking over my shoulder!")

As many have posted here, the notch lapel is now the most popular lapel choice. Does this in and of itself make it the best choice? Of course not. Multi-colored accessories are also hugely popular, as are pre-tied bow ties and a whole host of other vulgarities. Too, the tuxedo market is dominated by rentals, so people who don't often wear semi-formal clothes are making choices they might not be comfortable making. But its popularity does give us pause to consider that maybe, just maybe, it could simply be the most pleasing choice to other eyes as well?

Part of what informs my choice, no doubt, is my familiarity and comfort with business dress. I came up in a financial institution in which Casual Fridays meant light starch. And what is more traditional on a business suit than the notch lapel? (Let it also be said that, to my decidedly American tastes, the jetted pockets and ventless hems of the most traditional of tuxedos are terribly effeminate.) But for those who would say that the notch lapel makes the DJ look too much like a business suit, I would ask how many business suits you personally own with grosgrain lapels?

I'll follow this post soon with annotated pictures that illustrate my points, but in the meantime I shall sit back and enjoy the flames!
 
#2 ·
... and misguided members sometimes even speak of how 'incorrect' it is. Typically what one finds is a begrudging acceptance of its existence, whilst denigrating anyone so attired.
Yikes. I'm happy to leave this debate to rage over the pond. Turn up to an event in London in a notched dinner jacket and the inference that will be drawn is that one doesn't know how to dress (whether because you're a dot.commer who doesn't give a ***t, or an American in his high school prom tuxedo, or for any other reason).:devil:
 
#5 ·
That's like arguing that there are so many murderers and armed robbers out there than we should cease to care about thieves.
I like your analogy Balfour but we clearly differ in the magnitude to which we view the 'sartorial crime' of the notch lapel dinner suit. To me its more like jaywalking than theft. With that substitution, your analogy fits my view rather well!
 
#6 ·
From another thread:

But a few faux pas like notched lapels {snip} isn't going to be noticed by many as incorrect.
Nor should they be, as they are perfecty acceptable.
Piffle. They really aren't, unless you're shooting for the high school prom look.
Nah...I was going for the "Most Powerful Man in the World" look:



:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:

All in good humor, remember! :icon_smile_big:
 

Attachments

#8 ·
From another thread:

Nah...I was going for the "Most Powerful Man in the World" look:

View attachment 4957

:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:

All in good humor, remember! :icon_smile_big:
Very much in good humour, but I'm afraid the current POTUS does not cut it. See, e.g., this post:

Image


Is he not wearing a vest to a white tie event?
The last really well-dressed US President was Bush Snr. 'W' wasn't too bad, but very bland 'CEO' (and no doubt selected by image consultants). HW was geniune trad.
 
#9 ·
From another thread:

Nah...I was going for the "Most Powerful Man in the World" look:

View attachment 4957

:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:

All in good humor, remember! :icon_smile_big:
You want to look like a politician??? Ewwww . . . :eek2:

:icon_smile_big:
 
#12 ·
Young'un, you must be smoking angel dust! You have a nice rap, but you are all wrong, wrong, wrong.

The notch is the least elegant of the alternatives, and is only available because it is cheaper to make. It demonstrates that one does not know how to dress properly.

Only a misguided, knowledgeable fellow or a fanatic with an axe to grind would make this selection.

Now, go and sin no more....
 
#13 · (Edited)
Young'un, you must be smoking angel dust! You have a nice rap, but you are all wrong, wrong, wrong.

The notch is the least elegant of the alternatives, and is only available because it is cheaper to make. It demonstrates that one does not know how to dress properly.

Only a misguided, knowledgeable fellow or a fanatic with an axe to grind would make this selection.

Now, go and sin no more....
Orsini, this made me laugh like a banshee, and I appreciate that, trust me!

All kidding aside, however, you look at your pictures of James Bond, of George Clooney, Gregory Peck, Sean Connery and countless others, guys known for *getting it right,* and you'll see they all, at one point in their careers (even fictional), favored the notch lapel.

To paraphrase Chris Rock, "You know they did it, just admit it." :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
 
#15 · (Edited)
Orsini, this made me laugh like a banshee, and I appreciate that, trust me!

All kidding aside, however, you look at your pictures of James Bond, of George Clooney, Gregory Peck, Sean Connery and countless others, guys known for *getting it right,* and you'll see they all, at one point in their careers (even fictional), favored the notch lapel.

To paraphrase Chris Rock, "You know they did it, just admit it." :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
"E pur si muove." They would look better in peak lapels. I beseech you, don't go over to the dark side.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I think they are fine. Sean Connery wore a nice one in Goldfinger and I think in other movies, though Matt S will be able to confirm.

I find the notch lapel DJ far less 'offensive' than colourful bow ties to a formal event or a long black tie worn instead of a bow.
Connery wears notch lapel dinner jackets in Goldfinger and Diamonds Are Forever. In Goldfinger it's for a small private dinner. In Diamonds Are Forever he wears one to pay a visit to Willard Whyte. In each case the notch lapel dinner jacket is worn for a small, personal gathering. The example in Goldfinger perfectly shows where a notch lapel dinner jacket is appropriate. Roger Moore does the same in Octopussy, and in For Your Eyes Only he wears one out to dinner. The shawl lapel dinner jacket can function similarly to the notch, though it's still better for a casino or a club than more formal functions where peak lapels are best. The dinner jacket is more formal now than it was 50 years ago, making the notch lapels less appropriate for most functions where one wears a dinner jacket today. If you're going to opening night at the opera or a black tie gala, notch lapels are not correct.

I completely agree on the second part.
 
#20 · (Edited)
You should know that Gallilleo favored notches as well...:pic12337: :icon_smile_big:
Well, that would be pre-neoDOW anyway and I don't see that something so long ago matters -- unless I say so, of course...

This particular subject has been a hot potato around here for years. There has been some serious foaming at the mouth over this.

Actors in a play are not necessarily dressed to look their sartorial best, but rather to contribute to the character and whatever the director wants to communicate. What they wear is not necessarily intended to be correct per the current conventional wisdom but to give the audience cues as to what the character is.

Our redoubtable Texan is presenting himself to be the best Texan ever. Our actor is presenting himself to be a villain in a photoplay. There is a difference in the image you are trying to project.

And this is current trend anyway, and is thus generally to be avoided...
 
#22 ·
I have come around to the point of view of Blue Pincord. I say it's time to end this prissy iGent condemnation of the notch-lapel dinner jacket/tuxedo. The tuxedo has its origins as a "casual" alternative to the "full fig." The notch lapel was around and an accepted alternative in the early days of the dinner jacket. Yes, I know, its use fell into abeyance in the "Golden Age" of the interwar years, but, hey guys, it's not 1935 anymore. The notch lapel has been back since the late 1950s. It has been worn by many eminent men. (Oh, and I'm sure HRH Prince Phillip would be mistaken for an American in his high school prom tuxedo!) John T. Molloy in the second edition of "Dress for Success" counsels his readers to go with the notch lapel since that was the choice of "most executives"...and that was 25 years ago. Styles do change after all. The notch lapel is here to stay, I'm sure, and given the historical precedents for it and a half-century of widespread usage, at this point I think it is purely reactionary to impute a "wrongness" to the notch-lapel tuxedo, in the same sense that wearing square-toed, rubber-soled shoes with the tuxedo would be wrong. I tend to take the view that, if anything, the shawl lapel, with its kinship to the smoking jacket, is more casual than the notch lapel.

With that out of the way, should the occasion come up for me to get a tuxedo, I would not get a notch-lapel. In all probability, I would get a DB shawl lapel, but then I'm a pretty casual sort of guy!
 
#24 ·
Okay, then riddle me this: What do the below items come from?

India: Nehru, Notch
Mexico: Notch, Notch
China: Notch, Notch
Germany: Notch, Notch
South Korea: Notch, Notch
England: Shawl, Notch
I don't follow you.
Those are the six State Dinners which have been held under the current administration. All six were black tie. The first lapel listed is that worn by the executive of the visiting country (or her husband), the second is the lapel worn by the host.

Not a single peak among them, and only a single shawl. Of the twelve 'opportunities' for someone to wear a notch lapel, ten chose to do so. And if we take out Obama, we still have four out of six executives wearing a notch.

So if the notch lapel is not 'correct' for a black-tie gala, how is it somehow the preferred lapel for State Dinners?!! I'm afraid your advice that it is not correct is not correct.
 
#25 ·
Those are the six State Dinners which have been held under the current administration. All six were black tie. The first lapel listed is that worn by the executive of the visiting country (or her husband), the second is the lapel worn by the host.

Not a single peak among them, and only a single shawl. Of the twelve 'opportunities' for someone to wear a notch lapel, ten chose to do so. And if we take out Obama, we still have four out of six executives wearing a notch.

So if the notch lapel is not 'correct' for a black-tie gala, how is it somehow the preferred lapel for State Dinners?!! I'm afraid your advice that it is not correct is not correct.
Honestly, I'm not sure it's particularly wise to get an idea of what is "correct" from politicians, especially in terms of dress.