Fusing has advanced quite a bit over the years. In my opinion, those who can tell the major difference are the wearers of the garment, and those members of society who represent the kind of sartorial knowledge found on AAAC. That would make it a very small minority of people who could tell the difference.

I wear Southwick suits now, which are a hybrid of fusing and 1/2 canvas. I used to wear Oxxfords, which represent the pinnacle of construction. No one, has ever approached, or mentioned to me which garment was fused or fully canvassed. I have been complimented by knowledgeable people while wearing both garments. However, I think the most important thing to remember is not fused/canvas, but fit. Who cares if the suit is fully canvassed if it is not properly tailored? Who cares if it is fully canvassed, it you have not chosen to accessorize properly? Most of the compliments I have received, especially from females, has been on the accessories I have chosen, not the suit. I believe they could tell that the garments were well made, but it was the package/presentation that mattered.

The best dressed man in my neighborhood wears half canvassed HSM Gold Trumpeter suits. This gentleman looks simply smashing, yet wears entire ensembles that cost less than one of my old Oxxfords. I am just beginning to reach the point where I am "wearing my clothes" rather than the other way around.

I realize I gave a long winded answer, and apologize. None of the above was meant to chastize or knock anyone's viewpoint.

 

Having a locally made suit certainly isn't cost prohibitive, so why don't you try one--with a locally acquired fabric--and see what you think. If that suit meets with your needs then you can have more made. If it does not then little harm is done, and it's almost certainly the case that you could use the suit in some situations, at least enough to get your money's worth out of it.

 

I am just beginning to reach the point where I am "wearing my clothes" rather than the other way around.

Sweetbooness2, what do you mean by this? Please explain.

BoX

 

I went through a long phase where I was caught up in what brand suit/shoe/tie etc. I was wearing. Therefore, I went out into the world "modeling" my clothes rather than wearing them as an extension of who I am. As I have aged, and gotten into my mid forties, I have largely left this habit behind, and find that I am much better dressed now, even though the clothes I purchase are usually not nearly as costly.

 

I went through a long phase where I was caught up in what brand suit/shoe/tie etc. I was wearing. Therefore, I went out into the world "modeling" my clothes rather than wearing them as an extension of who I am. As I have aged, and gotten into my mid forties, I have largely left this habit behind, and find that I am much better dressed now, even though the clothes I purchase are usually not nearly as costly.

Thank you, I understand now.

I think I can relate to this a bit. At 37, I am just starting to rebuild my wardrobe from khaki pants and polo shirt as my daily attire to, sport coats, trousers, a tie, nice shoes, etc. At first I was very motivated by brand name, thinking if its brand X it must be great, regardless. I am starting to move away from that as I start to apprieciate the importance of good fit, quality materials and consturction, and an honest evalutation of what looks good on me. I think part of the problem in my case is that growing up in the 80s having that pony or alligator on your chest was very important to look good and its hard to unlearn that.

 

i believe that a fused suit will not dry clean as well as a canvassed. i heard that over several dry cleans, the fused suit will not be the same.

also, canvassed suits wear well, they drape and flow with your movements, better than a fused.

also, canvassed has more handiwork, so anything more time consuming will entail a higher premium.

i overheard somewhere that if you paid $1000 for a suit, you either got RIPPED OFF, or got an AWESOME DEAL.

 

Dry cleaning may cause bubbles in the suit. Once the bubbles are in they don't come out. While I prever canvassed suits, I have several that are fused. You can tell the difference after a few months.

 

i believe that a fused suit will not dry clean as well as a canvassed. i heard that over several dry cleans, the fused suit will not be the same.

also, canvassed suits wear well, they drape and flow with your movements, better than a fused.

also, canvassed has more handiwork, so anything more time consuming will entail a higher premium.

i overheard somewhere that if you paid $1000 for a suit, you either got RIPPED OFF, or got an AWESOME DEAL.

As for fusing going to hell in a few dry cleanings, I think that depends largely on the fusing and the dry cleaners. I have an inexpensive Nordstrom's blazer that I bought sometime in 1992 or early 1993 (can't remember which). I have given that garment enormous use. I have no idea how often it has gone to the dry cleaner's, but certainly many, many times. It is still an attractive, serviceable garment--no trace of bubbling or anything else beyond getting a bit threadbare right at the cuffs. In fact, I shall probably wear it this evening. I typically wear it to work a couple of times a week.

No, it doesn't have the lightness and perfection of fit as my Chan blazers. It is not as attractive on me as my Chan blazers, but I am still a long way from donating it to the homeless. In fact, if my canvassed Chan blazers hold up that well with the passing of years, they may just see me out!

I also have the fused navy suit in which I was married in 1994. I haven't used it nearly as hard as that blazer, but it has seen a fair amount of use, and i certainly have no plans to retire it. It seems as good as when we tied the knot. (Wish I could say the same about myself!)

For all the disdain for fusing in these fora, I think the matter is overblown.

 

I strongly prefer fully canvassed suits because of the soft look and feel (basically all the reasons given by briiian13). Given your circumstances (early in career, in firm and country where fully canvassed jackets are not worn that often, etc.), however, Josepidal, I doubt that it will make much of a difference to others. If you don't feel that it's now financially prudent and there are no other factors that you feel weigh in favor of going with a better garment, then there's no reason to do so. Early in my career most of my suits were fully canvassed because there are so many discount stores here in the USA and I could buy these suits without breaking the bank. I probably wouldn't have bought fully canvassed suits at the time were it not for those low prices. If I were just starting in my career now, given the current pricing of suits, I would probably get mostly 1/2 canvassed garments (you still get that nice, soft roll in the lapel).

 

i believe that a fused suit will not dry clean as well as a canvassed. i heard that over several dry cleans, the fused suit will not be the same.

I have heard that too. Yet, I still have the first suit purchased with my own money. I bought it in 1991 for about $300 in a mall at a place that sold only suits-I do not recall the name of the store, perhaps Cambridge something or other, it was in R.I. where I went to school). The suit brand is Cricketeer. The suit is certianly fused and it has been dry cleaned way too many times.

The lapel is still flat (no curling up) and there are no other signs of oddness due to the glue. About two years ago I took the suit in to a tailor and he re-altered it (I think he took out the padding too) and it fits and looks fine-it's not one of my favorite suits at this point, but I still wear it now and then in a pinch.

 

One word:

'Essential'.

 

I agree with most everyone that fit is really number one, followed by overall presentation/ coordination, and third on the list, quality. Canvassed will indeed last longer, and maybe provide a better drape and feel on your body, but in general, a good fitting fused suit will get the job done for all intents and purposes.

In regards to feeling softer and more flowing, I don't think this is necessarily true. I have a Ralph Lauren suit that is totally fused, yet the front quarters of it feel very soft and light. I also have a Samuelsohn that is fully canvassed, but since the wool is so tough and the canvas is so thick, it almost behaves like a fused suit. The advantage of course, is that the Samuelsohn has more handwork, and will last much much longer due to material and construction quality. A further point on this note is comfort, as well. While the Ralph Lauren moves well, and may be more physically comfortable, the Samuelsohn has me convinced of it's quality. The suit seems to hug me and fit better the more I wear it, whereas the opposite is true for the fused coat. I also feel more mental comfort in the canvassed one because I am wearing a garment made with more pride than the Lauren, and the suit can take abuse very well.

Again, however, fit is really the number one thing. If you know the difference, it's worth getting a canvassed coat, but if not, most people (including yourself) could never tell the difference. And a fused bespoke suit will always fit and look better than a canvassed that is two sizes too large. Give the local tailor a shot. If it's really that bad, or like wearing a bullet proof vest or something, go offshore and step up the quality.

That's my opinion, anyway, hope the suit to be turns out well.

 

I agree with most everyone that fit is really number one, followed by overall presentation/ coordination, and third on the list, quality. Canvassed will indeed last longer, and maybe provide a better drape and feel on your body, but in general, a good fitting fused suit will get the job done for all intents and purposes.

In regards to feeling softer and more flowing, I don't think this is necessarily true. I have a Ralph Lauren suit that is totally fused, yet the front quarters of it feel very soft and light. I also have a Samuelsohn that is fully canvassed, but since the wool is so tough and the canvas is so thick, it almost behaves like a fused suit. The advantage of course, is that the Samuelsohn has more handwork, and will last much much longer due to material and construction quality. A further point on this note is comfort, as well. While the Ralph Lauren moves well, and may be more physically comfortable, the Samuelsohn has me convinced of it's quality. The suit seems to hug me and fit better the more I wear it, whereas the opposite is true for the fused coat. I also feel more mental comfort in the canvassed one because I am wearing a garment made with more pride than the Lauren, and the suit can take abuse very well.

Again, however, fit is really the number one thing. If you know the difference, it's worth getting a canvassed coat, but if not, most people (including yourself) could never tell the difference. And a fused bespoke suit will always fit and look better than a canvassed that is two sizes too large. Give the local tailor a shot. If it's really that bad, or like wearing a bullet proof vest or something, go offshore and step up the quality.

That's my opinion, anyway, hope the suit to be turns out well.

How do you separate your number two, presentation, from your number three? Although I agree that advantages of canvassing are greater with nicer fabric and that RL Polo makes a nice (perhaps the nicest) fused suit jacket, almost any decent fabric will look better if it doesn't have anything glued to the back of it.

 

I don't think its difficult to separate two from three. Southwick makes a partially fused garment, as do many manufacturers in order to remain competitive. Is it an Oxxford....no. Is it a quality qarment.....yes. I have seen too many fully canvassed suits from high end manufacturers that suffered from lack of attention to details.
For instance, in a local men's store of some repute, there are fully canvassed suits from an Italian suit manufacturer/fabric mill without pattern matching, costing well over $1,300.00. I would feel much more comfortable in one of my mtm garments with its hybrid manufacture AND pattern matching than those fully canvassed garments.

 

How do you separate your number two, presentation, from your number three? Although I agree that advantages of canvassing are greater with nicer fabric and that RL Polo makes a nice (perhaps the nicest) fused suit jacket, almost any decent fabric will look better if it doesn't have anything glued to the back of it.

Well, what I meant by "presentation" was a number of things. Namely, the outfit itself. A nice blend of patterns and colors that all compliment each other, as well as the wearer, but are still framed by a fused suit, will look better than an ill-fitting canvassed suit with a clashing shirt and tie that are weakly thrown together.

And I do also agree that hey, you are going to be better off with both a canvassed suit and a well put together ensemble. However, not everyone can access all the "ingredients", primarily the suit. Our case in point is the original poster. I think that a guy who is doing the best with what he has will outdo the guy who knows what quality is, just not how to wear it well.

Obviously, if a fused and a canvassed suit are both cut to the same pattern out of the same fabric, the canvassed one will take the cake, no question. All I meant to say is that a good fit and a nicely coordinated outfit can remedy low construction quality more than you'd initially think.

 

Unfortunately it is far more complicated than just fused or not.
For all the reasons above and then a few none aesthetic ones too.
It is not just canvass or glue, but how the canvass is made too.
There are badly done canvassed jackets just as they are decently done fused jackets.

Part of the task of a good canvass is absorb sweat, then, air out well and keep its shape and be odor free.
A fused jacket can not do this as well by the very fact it is glued into place.

A fused jacket does not breath in the same way a well canvassed suit does.
This means you run a touch hotter all day long.
As your body heat runs up a notch, so does humidity, and your shirts look like $#@ quicker!
(And you don't want Alex seeing your shirts looking like that!)

In a perfect world, you would never take your jacket off and you come home looking as dapper as the moment you left the house!

But reality says otherwise and a well canvassed suit will glide through the day in a better fashion than a fused. A well canvassed suit will mold to your frame in a similar fashion as a good shoe.

The very wise, young and lovely AAAC member VS has a signature that reads something along the line of:

"Buy the best, and you will only cry once"

 

Part of the task of a good canvass is absorb sweat, then, air out well and keep its shape and be odor free.
A fused jacket can not do this as well by the very fact it is glued into place.

A fused jacket does not breath in the same way a well canvassed suit does.
This means you run a touch hotter all day long.
As your body heat runs up a notch, so does humidity, and your shirts look like $#@ quicker!
(And you don't want Alex seeing your shirts looking like that!)

In a perfect world, you would never take your jacket off and you come home looking as dapper as the moment you left the house!

But reality says otherwise and a well canvassed suit will glide through the day in a better fashion than a fused. A well canvassed suit will mold to your frame in a similar fashion as a good shoe.

Interesting point, Zegnamtl!

 

Josepidal, I'm going to address the broader issue here first, then return to your specific situation at the end. Some of what I say below may not apply to you, but if you would, bear with me, because I think the core concepts are still relevant.

I'm a staunch proponent of the canvassed suit. But I'll set aside my construction-based arguments to raise a question of practicality: Outside of an emergency situation, why buy a fully fused suit at retail when canvassed suits of a variety of makes and styles can be had for $700 or less regularly, and often for under $400? This doesn't even take into account eBay, where canvassed suits can be had secondhand for less than $200 and often for less than $100.

To me, a fused suit is a sign of shortcuts taken. Compromises made. They might be light, they might hold up decently, but ultimately, why plunk down money that could buy a better product for the same price?

Partly canvassed suits are more of a gray area, of course. There, the partial canvassing at least suggests better quality construction. I often recommend Polo blue label, for example. But I certainly consider them less desirable than fully canvassed suits. Canvassing simply makes for a better product.

Sometimes, of course, there will be exceptions. Perhaps an eBay cheapie just happens to catch your fancy. Maybe a fused suit just looks too good on you to pass up. Perhaps you want an inexpensive beater for bad weather or travel. Whatever. I don't think fused suits are inherently evil, just not smart investments at retail. (And the poorly made ones are inherently evil; part of the problem is that the people most likely to buy them are those who haven't learned to recognize better from bad.)

Now on to your situation, Josepidal. I don't know how much access you have to places such as STP, so much of what I wrote earlier may be irrelevant. But let's think about your comments about fiscal prudence. How much money would you save by having a fused suit made locally? If it's a very large amount, and if your funds are very limited, perhaps it makes sense. But if this is not the case, it strikes me as silly to pay out good money if you know you're simply going to want to toss the suits in a few years.

Think about your evolution when it came to shoes. You went to Lobb and EG very quickly. Had you gone out and bought several pairs of Kenneth Cole shoes at retail, because they looked good and seemed decent enough at the time, would you wear them now? If you have fused suits made, do you think you'll really want them in the future? You're committing your money, time and nice cloth to this project. Is it worth it?

Also, you express concern about not wanting to outdress others. But this seems a bit silly. Why invest in having clothing tailored specifically for you if this is the case?

Sometimes, of course, the bottom line is the bottom line. If a fused suit is all you can afford right now, that may be all there is to your decision.

Just some things to think about.

 

CHC- Please never call a fuse coat bespoke tailored. Maybe tailored or custom.

Fused and bespoke tailored never goes together.

 

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

About Doc's comment, might it be right to say that despite the lower costs of tailoring here in Southeast Asia, you might get a better deal by hunting up fully canvassed RTW suits in US discount stores?

 

I'm a staunch proponent of the canvassed suit. But I'll set aside my construction-based arguments to raise a question of practicality: Outside of an emergency situation, why buy a fully fused suit at retail when canvassed suits of a variety of makes and styles can be had for $700 or less regularly, and often for under $400? This doesn't even take into account eBay, where canvassed suits can be had secondhand for less than $200 and often for less than $100.

Has there been a shopping guide thread for where to take advantage of such prices? If not, it would be great if we had one. Perhaps including strategies (when sales are, good ways to search, etc.) as well as sources.

 

CHC- Please never call a fuse coat bespoke tailored. Maybe tailored or custom.

Fused and bespoke tailored never goes together.

Well I didn't say good bespoke! But if a pattern is made for the customer specifically and the suit is cut and sewed to those measurements, but good cloth and cutting unfortunately have canvas fused on, it can technically be "fused bespoke".

Don't get me wrong, though. I think the idea is something of an abomination to the idea of bespoke. It's just if it's literally the only thing available in the whole country (in JosePidal's case), then I think that it is workable and can look great if worn well, just not an ideal option.

 

About Doc's comment, might it be right to say that despite the lower costs of tailoring here in Southeast Asia, you might get a better deal by hunting up fully canvassed RTW suits in US discount stores?

Part of answering that would depend on how much you would spend in SEA, and how well the local tailor cuts a suit. I have some fused suits but mostly canvassed. If I was on a tighter budget I would not hesitate to wear more (if not all) fused suits, especially if they were well altered to fit me.

Another issue is whether you have a local alterations tailor who can do a good job on suits you might round up in the US. No sense in having someone butcher a good suit.

 

terms

CHC- Please never call a fuse coat bespoke tailored. Maybe tailored or custom.

Fused and bespoke tailored never goes together.

please, custom is the american term for bespoke which is an english term.

 

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

About Doc's comment, might it be right to say that despite the lower costs of tailoring here in Southeast Asia, you might get a better deal by hunting up fully canvassed RTW suits in US discount stores?

You noted above that the cost for you to have a suit made is $130 plus the cost of materials. I don't know how much you'd be paying for materials, but if you have some time to shop here, you could find them for approximately $600 or less if you had some time to shop (you'd want to check Last Call, NM; Off Fifth, Saks 5th; and Hickey Freeman outlets stores, just to name a few, and all can be found at the Woodbury Common outlets in NY State). As noted, you should check Sierra Trading Post's prices for fully canvassed suit brands, if they have anything in your size. Check to see how much their suits by Gianluca Isaia cost, if they have any right now. There's also a coupon for 20% off in the deals and steals section of this site. With the discounts (sale that ends tonight, plust the coupon), here's a GI suit that could be had for less than $700: Not very much inventory left at this point, however, due in part to this sale that they've been running.

One compromise might be to go with 1/2 canvassed suits, as I suggested earlier. You might check to see if they have any Southwick 1/2 canvassed suits on STP.