IMO, it's pretty much one and the same. Prep becomes Ivy/Trad as you mature. Lose the GTH look and dress with OCBD from the usual sources, khakis, gray trousers, penny and tassel loafers from Alden or Allen-Edmonds (or Bass if you can stand what's become of their shoes), a blue blazer and tweed jacket as the basic wardrobe. Belts can be patterned or simple leather or leather weave. Add wingtips and or captoe shoes when loafers are too casual. Repp ties and similar old school patterns when you need a tie and Bob's your uncle.

Watches depend on your position, finances, etc. Simple silver/gold watches on a strap are old school. I usually wear one of a couple Rolex sport watches or my Omega Speedmaster professional.

Remember, "trad"/ivy is prep grown up.

I've dressed this way most of the time for close to 50 years from the age of 15 to today.

 

I think adding some ties, blazers or sport coats to the work wardrobe, could take things up a notch. Various styles of shoes would work as well I think. Trad is trad for a reason, things are going to generally look alike more often than not.


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IMO, it's pretty much one and the same. Prep becomes Ivy/Trad as you mature. Lose the GTH look and dress with OCBD from the usual sources, khakis, gray trousers, penny and tassel loafers from Alden or Allen-Edmonds (or Bass if you can stand what's become of their shoes), a blue blazer and tweed jacket as the basic wardrobe. Belts can be patterned or simple leather or leather weave. Add wingtips and or captoe shoes when loafers are too casual. Repp ties and similar old school patterns when you need a tie and Bob's your uncle.

Watches depend on your position, finances, etc. Simple silver/gold watches on a strap are old school. I usually wear one of a couple Rolex sport watches or my Omega Speedmaster professional.

Remember, "trad"/ivy is prep grown up.

I've dressed this way most of the time for close to 50 years from the age of 15 to today.

Have Bass Weejuns dropped in quality? I currently have some middle-of-the road penny loafers and considering getting some nicer ones and Bass was on the list based on others' recommendations.

I don't typically wear a watch because I'd have to take it off in the operatory, so I'd pretty much just be wearing one out for dinners/events/drinks. I probably don't want to drop the amount that a Rolex or Omega require. Do you have any suggestions on something in the wide open country between Omega and a Timex Weekender. Something that looks simple/clean but that the cost isn't gonna make me sad when it's misplaced?

 

...Trad is trad for a reason, things are going to generally look alike more often than not....

Great point and that is why, in its day (and even today for those who care), it was / is all about the details.

Is the quality there? / Does the OCBD have a good collar roll? / Is everything well tailored (not super slim as is the current fashion)? / Are the materials dominantly natural? / Is the yellow sweater the right yellow? / The jacket a sack? / The lapel 3/2/ and on and on.

Of course, no one (well a few here do) gets all the details right (and that can be too much and what exactly are the "right" details anyway), but a general understanding of the history and style ethos of Trad / Ivy goes a long way to getting the "small" things right that make the big-picture correct.

Good luck, that you are 22, reading this forum and thinking about this stuff says a lot.

 

I think adding some ties, blazers or sport coats to the work wardrobe, could take things up a notch. Various styles of shoes would work as well I think. Trad is trad for a reason, things are going to generally look alike more often than not.

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Do you have any favorite types of blazers/sport coats? I have a seersucker blazer and navy blazer. Tweed? Donegal? Harris?

 

Great point and that is why, in its day (and even today for those who care), it was / is all about the details.

Is the quality there? / Does the OCBD have a good collar roll? / Is everything well tailored (not super slim as is the current fashion)? / Are the materials dominantly natural? / Is the yellow sweater the right yellow? / The jacket a sack? / The lapel 3/2/ and on and on.

Of course, no one (well a few here do) gets all the details right (and that can be too much and what exactly are the "right" details anyway), but a general understanding of the history and style ethos of Trad / Ivy goes a long way to getting the "small" things right that make the big-picture correct.

Good luck, that you are 22, reading this forum and thinking about this stuff says a lot.

Which OCBDs would you say have a good collar roll

 

yonder, I can't tell you what to buy other than what I buy. Lots of guys like the Timex line. Maybe check into Bulova, Hamilton, Tissot for a decent, plain dial watch. Personally, I'd look for a vintage one of those brands but if you're just wearing it on weekends, something like a Timex Weekender would be fine.

For me, a gray Harris tweed and brown Donegal do the trick. I have a couple blue blazers - one is an Austin Reed and the other is a JC Penny. The Austin Reed in vintage now and the Penny's is a couple years old.

There's a guy who wrote a book called the Old Money book and gets much right about clothing although his political agenda comes through as well. But his ideas about how true old money lives, the clothes they wear, food they eat, financial habits, is pretty darn close to my own family's values. Although I am not from that world, I grew up around it and picked up some of these habits from family who was and people I knew in school and, later, in business.

 

Which OCBDs would you say have a good collar roll

BB, Mercer, Gant, Gitman... Just to name a few

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Do you have any favorite types of blazers/sport coats? I have a seersucker blazer and navy blazer. Tweed? Donegal? Harris?

I'm too hot natured for tweed, even in the coldest temps here in NC.. My navy blazer from BB is my go to for obvious reasons.. It's as versatile a jacket that any man can have. To add some fun to my mix, you will often see me post pictures wearing bow ties, for me it's dressy enough for my office yet casual enough... Here's an example

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Have Bass Weejuns dropped in quality? I currently have some middle-of-the road penny loafers and considering getting some nicer ones and Bass was on the list based on others' recommendations.

I don't typically wear a watch because I'd have to take it off in the operatory, so I'd pretty much just be wearing one out for dinners/events/drinks. I probably don't want to drop the amount that a Rolex or Omega require. Do you have any suggestions on something in the wide open country between Omega and a Timex Weekender. Something that looks simple/clean but that the cost isn't gonna make me sad when it's misplaced?

I just picked up a Stafford navy hopsack last week at J.C. Penny. A great entry level trad blazer that is very inexpensive. They are on sale right now. Watches. I'm looking at Seiko 5 watches. There is a consensus that they are a great watch for the price. Shoes, add Rancourt to whats already been mentioned as far as loafers go. You pretty much got the rest down. No labels, loud clothing, critters, etc. I've paired my wardobe down by almost half in the last month getting rid of stuff that i don't like since i've started wearing trad clothing. The trad essentials are soo interchangeable that you don't need more than just the basics of everything.

 

I'm too hot natured for tweed, even in the coldest temps here in NC.. My navy blazer from BB is my go to for obvious reasons.. It's as versatile a jacket that any man can have. To add some fun to my mix, you will often see me post pictures wearing bow ties, for me it's dressy enough for my office yet casual enough... Here's an example

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Yeah navy blazer is hard to beat. Good look with the bow tie there. I never wewr them but think that's a sharp look with the blazer

 

yonder, I can't tell you what to buy other than what I buy. Lots of guys like the Timex line. Maybe check into Bulova, Hamilton, Tissot for a decent, plain dial watch. Personally, I'd look for a vintage one of those brands but if you're just wearing it on weekends, something like a Timex Weekender would be fine.

For me, a gray Harris tweed and brown Donegal do the trick. I have a couple blue blazers - one is an Austin Reed and the other is a JC Penny. The Austin Reed in vintage now and the Penny's is a couple years old.

There's a guy who wrote a book called the Old Money book and gets much right about clothing although his political agenda comes through as well. But his ideas about how true old money lives, the clothes they wear, food they eat, financial habits, is pretty darn close to my own family's values. Although I am not from that world, I grew up around it and picked up some of these habits from family who was and people I knew in school and, later, in business.

Thanks for the suggestions on watches. Is the nato strap acceptable at all ages or more of a younger look? I'd probably go with NATO or a brown leather

Your blazer tastes sound like mine

Will look into that book

 

I just picked up a Stafford navy hopsack last week at J.C. Penny. A great entry level trad blazer that is very inexpensive. They are on sale right now. Watches. I'm looking at Seiko 5 watches. There is a consensus that they are a great watch for the price. Shoes, add Rancourt to whats already been mentioned as far as loafers go. You pretty much got the rest down. No labels, loud clothing, critters, etc. I've paired my wardobe down by almost half in the last month getting rid of stuff that i don't like since i've started wearing trad clothing. The trad essentials are soo interchangeable that you don't need more than just the basics of everything.

Will add rancourt

I'm ignorant on watches so didn't know if there's any stigma with timex/seico. Obviously not a Rolex but I just want a simple timeless look even if the watch doesn't last that long

Would be a bonus if I can get a half decent one that's not several thousand but honestly just not a priority right now

 

Will add rancourt

I'm ignorant on watches so didn't know if there's any stigma with timex/seico. Obviously not a Rolex but I just want a simple timeless look even if the watch doesn't last that long

Would be a bonus if I can get a half decent one that's not several thousand but honestly just not a priority right now

You can't go wrong with the Seiko 5. Its a highly respected watch.

 

Re: the Seiko 5, while many like them, many (including me) do not. I bought one a couple years ago and it was incredibly fussy and inaccurate. I would rather get one of their solar or quartz watches. Here's a takeoff on a Patek Calatrava for less than a hundred bucks on Amazon. If you don't like gold, do a search on Amazon for Seiko (or whatever brand you like) dress watches or sport watches, depending on your taste. I'm not the guy to ask about NATO straps as I can't stand them on any watch but I seem to be in the minority. Keep in mind, I'm now 65 and my tastes are from my generation and my background. The world is a different place from when I was 22 and living in California in the early 70's.

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SUP878-Analog-Display-Japanese/dp/B00LGZCAVA/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1467678293&sr=8-12&keywords=seiko+dress+watch

 

I wanted to link one more dressy watch in silver, also from Seiko. Preppy is grosgrain or ribbon bands, Ivy/Trad (IMO) is leather, preferably (on a dress watch, anyway) alligator or croc. Even if you wear a hundred dollar watch like the two I've linked, a $75-100 real alligator or croc band (and you can spend lots more but check deBeer) will improve the look tremendously. If you go for a sports watch then a plain leather chrono type band (or metal bracelet) is a better choice IMO.

https://www.amazon.com/SEIKO-CLASSI...Bxb56uL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL500_SR304,500_&psc=1&refRID=PAY7X3R1SHMR1CXF8WVF

 

Re: the Seiko 5, while many like them, many (including me) do not. I bought one a couple years ago and it was incredibly fussy and inaccurate. I would rather get one of their solar or quartz watches. Here's a takeoff on a Patek Calatrava for less than a hundred bucks on Amazon. If you don't like gold, do a search on Amazon for Seiko (or whatever brand you like) dress watches or sport watches, depending on your taste. I'm not the guy to ask about NATO straps as I can't stand them on any watch but I seem to be in the minority. Keep in mind, I'm now 65 and my tastes are from my generation and my background. The world is a different place from when I was 22 and living in California in the early 70's.

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SUP878-Analog-Display-Japanese/dp/B00LGZCAVA/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1467678293&sr=8-12&keywords=seiko+dress+watch

Thanks for the links!

 

I'm drawn more towards the New England style of Trad but that only helps in the Fall/winter. During spring/summer, there's not a lot to differentiate prep from Trad.

I think that's one of the big areas of difference: colder weather wear. Other than that, hairstyles - which, in turn, reflect as others have said that trad is mature prep, at least to some extent. I also think there's a notch up in quality/$ with trad.

 

I'm gonna take a stab at this: Dressing in reference -- if not deference -- to what's worked in the past for other men, eschewing obvious fads without falling into the foolish consistency that is the hobgoblin of little minds? That's "trad" in a nutshell. And it can range all over the map. Then there's "prep" as it's marketed by a lot of brands that care a lot about branding -- some of which make awesome stuff that I wear all the time. A for instance: I love wearing my Auburn Vineyard Vines bow tie with a blazer on early autumn days in Boston when my heart yearns toward the Loveliest Village. But that tie isn't gonna stand the test of time (Am I alone in finding V.V.'s tie patterns to be sort of -- I dunno -- overthought caricatures of Hermès designs?).

To start out in professional life: Buy obviously loud and trendy stuff sparingly, focusing instead on building up a wardrobe of timeless, interchangeable basics. Find out how those basics are supposed to fit and flatter your figure no matter how much it fluctuates over the years. Then -- as much as your work and play (and finances) allow -- add color and experiment with contrasts. You can get away with more of this in the South, but not much more.


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Also, for what it's worth, I think that J. Press Blue is doing a stellar job with tailored basics for younger/slimmer guys, at a good price point once you factor in sales. And the fabrics and styling that you see at any given J. Crew Ludlow Shop are steps in the right direction, though the fit seems to be way off for most guys.


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My office dress is business casual (no suits) - more OCBD/dress shirt, chinos, etc. and I tend to dress the same socially outside the office

I'm drawn more towards the New England style of Trad but that only helps in the Fall/winter. During spring/summer, there's not a lot to differentiate prep from Trad.

So other than staying away from loud pastels, croakies, critter pants, and V.V./"Southern" brands, how does one achieve more of a TRAD look versus a prep/frat look?

Nothing wrong with a button-down collar; really so long as the collar rolls correctly, the fabric can be almost anything. If oxford cloth seems too casual, maybe try broadcloth for a bit more polish.

Tropical-weight wool trousers with a plain front might be a good choice. So long as they're solid colored, they swap out reasonably well in an office environment full of chinos without being too formal -- you can sometimes even find them in khaki.

 

RE your collar roll question. Our forum member OCBD is meaningfully more qualified than I am to answer this (he has a wonderful blog on topics like this), but for me, Brooks Brothers OCBD still has a good roll.

RE watches. One route to consider is vintage. A lot of Trad watches are hand-me-downs so a cool '20s-'50s wristwatch is, IMHO, very Trad.

The good news is they are out there and not expensive - $150 - $300 will get you a very good looking vintage watch. The less good news is that owning a vintage watch can be a bit expensive as serving and repairs will average a $100-$200 every several years (sometimes I go five years without a problem and, then, two years in a row will cost me $150 each year).

But for me, the cost is worth it as it isn't an insane cost and the vibe and feel of true vintage is great. I, too, like you, like a leather band and, as suggested above by CSG, will usually invest in a croc or alligator to take it up a notch.

This is my day-to-day 1920s Swiss wristwatch that I paid (about) $225 on Ebay and, two years in, haven't yet spent a dime on service (but know that day is coming):

https://s1279.photobucket.com/user/mkahn22/media/photo4-6_zps2def1f76.jpg.html

 

Appreciation on this forum of vintage watches is understandable, but any mechanical (automatic) watch will need routine service every four or five years at a cost between $400 (low) to $650 (Rolex). This is true even though some may say they have been running one for thirty years without service and it still "keeps good time." It is a machine. Machines need regular adjustment, cleaning and lubrication. Eventually, components of machines wear out and must be replaced -- unless, of course, an owner can suspend the laws of physics.

Also, selecting a vintage mechanical watch requires either assured depth of knowledge on the part of the buyer or absolute, tested, trust in the seller - who should be an established local shop.

A better choice for someone starting out is a quartz model. Best among them, in my opinion, are the various solar models that will need nothing until the op's resources expand to encompass a Rolex. My favorite solar line is the Citizen Eco-Drive, which includes many styles of cases, bands and bracelets.

 

It all depends on how much you are willing to buck your stated office dress code.

When college students graduated from the Ivies in the 50's and 60's, they took corporate jobs and that usually meant getting suits from the same purveyors that provided them with their khakis, wool flannel slacks, repp ties and OCBD's: J. Press, Brooks Brothers, Chipp, etc.

Nothing says serious or grown-up like a suit. ;-)

If you're not going to wear suits then perhaps add this to your wardrobe:

Navy Blazer (all season).

Grey Herringbone Sport Jacket (all season)

Sport Jackets in general (for the fall/winter you can add tweed, etc.)

Tropical Wool or Gabardine Wool plain-front slacks with cuffs (all season wear). Tan, Mid-Grey, Navy, Charcoal, Olive. Brooks Brothers, O'Connells, Joseph Abboud, Hickey Freeman, maybe even Lands End.

Mid Grey, Navy and Charcoal Wool Flannel slacks (fall/winter)

OCBD (try different colors, university stripe, etc)

Broadcloth shirts (cooler in summer), with button down collar (graph check, tattersall, gingham, etc.)

SHOES. Here's where you might differentiate yourself. Since you aren't wearing suits, this is where Trad shoes are in their element: the not too formal but dressy blucher. Long Wing Blucher, Plain Toe Blucher, Split Toe Blucher. Some semi-brogue balmorals are amazing, too. Start with Allen Edmonds, move on Alden if you become a shoe-nut. If you're on a budget you can start with the Florsheim Imperial Line.

Watches. Something between a Rolex and a Timex? ;-). Get an automatic watch from a reputable, but mid-range Swiss company: Tissot, Hamilton, Victorinox. All in the 500-900 range, new. They come with 2-3 year warranties.

There's a really cool retro vibe to the Tissot Visodate, or try the Hamilton Jazzmaster line. If you can live without a seconds hand, the Hamilton Intramatic is one of the most beautiful vintage inspired watches you can find. Don Draper would have worn that watch.

If you like the gentleman's sports watch vibe (James Bond) try the Victorinox Officer's watch or the Airboss for a more pilot-themed watch.

Theoden

--Theoden

 

A better choice for someone starting out is a quartz model. Best among them, in my opinion, are the various solar models that will need nothing until the op's resources expand to encompass a Rolex.

+1. A quartz with solar is the low maintenance way to go. Time will be accurate, no maintenance, not batteries to change.

My favorite solar line is the Citizen Eco-Drive, which includes many styles of cases, bands and bracelets.

Seiko also makes nice solar watches