mmmmm, a sack blazer can have just as much waist suppression as a darted blazer. You can take in the waist from the sides easily. I don't really care about the waist suppression, all I care about are the natural shoulders and absence of darts. I don't find darts good-looking.

 

I have found sack suit/sport coats to be more readily adaptable to an atheletic build and, perhaps it is my imagination but, more comfortable during warmer periods of the year. However, they are a bit more difficult to find and they seem to cost a bit more these days.

 

I mainly just like the natural shoulders. I don't like darts but I care about the shoulder thing and sice these two usually go together....

 

Mmmmm, a sack blazer can have just as much waist suppression as a darted blazer. You can take in the waist from the sides easily. I don't really care about the waist suppression, all I care about are the natural shoulders and absence of darts. I don't find darts good-looking.

Very true, and especially so with a pattern (the darts just mess that up visually).

DocD

 

Now hold on a minute. If you start suppressing the waist, wouldn't the purists claim that you've no longer got a sack? After all, you've done in the boxy, rectangular silhouette. If you'll all dig back into your J.Press catalogs from the fall, you'll note that this was an essential part of the Press explanation of the sack look. I believe one of the arch-Trads once opined that the absence of darts does not a sack make. This is the Trad Forum and rules are rules.

As to OP's point about the portly. These are precisely the folks who could benefit from more contoured silhouettes.

 

Now hold on a minute. If you start suppressing the waist, wouldn't the purists claim that you've no longer got a sack? After all, you've done in the boxy, rectangular silhouette. If you'll all dig back into your J.Press catalogs from the fall, you'll note that this was an essential part of the Press explanation of the sack look. I believe one of the arch-Trads once opined that the absence of darts does not a sack make. This is the Trad Forum and rules are rules.

Don't throw than Manton wordsmithing at us. Nothing was ever agreed upon. They're aren't any RULES, just a lot of personal "rules" that work for individual people. They do average out to a generalized profile of "trad clothing", but nothing is fixed, really.

As to OP's point about the portly. These are precisely the folks who could benefit from more contoured silhouettes.

Because of the larger belly, the problem is that to allow the contouring over a belly you need a jacket with such large shoulders that it becomes bizarre looking. And if the darts do nothing, then why have them? The experts will disagree, but I trust my eyes...

Yes, "bespoke", but I can't afford that and neither can most men (or, for that matter, members of this forum, if they were thinking rationally).

DocD

 

I'm not a purist trad then.

I think we, as individuals, need to find styles that fit our specific bodies/needs/preferences. Saying "I want to be a trad because trad is cool" is ridiculous if trad doesn't look good on you. Extremely portly coats don't look good on me at all considering I have a 30 waist. I prefer coats with some waist suppression.

Darts just look horrible, and they don't DO anything! Like, I always wonder why people make darts. They suppress the waist by only 1-2 inches at most. Why wouldn't the factories suppress the jackets from the sides? I would think the process of making the darts would cost a lot of money. You have to pinch the jacket, and then you have to remove the extra material, and then you have to make the finishing look smooth. So troublesome.

I respect people who develop their own sense of style. This guy made a custom 3-2 navy sack blazer with double vents and orange lining at Eljo's. That's his own style.

 

Maybe I'm just feeling argumentative this morning, so take it all in good humor. My understanding is that Trad is an artificial construct that has certain, narrowly defined characteristics. I say artificial because the people who originated the look certainly didn't think of themselves as Trad or even realize that they were doing anything unusual.

The sack jacket is one of the fundamentals of the construct. Change it, and the whole shebang goes out of whack. I don't even wear sack jackets, so I don't have a dog in the fight. As an independent observer, however, I can clearly perceive the protocols of the construct. It's OK to wear something outside the canon. But the canon is what it is.

DocD,

To be compared to Manton, even scathingly, is a bit of an honor!:icon_smile:

 

To be compared to Manton, even scathingly, is a bit of an honor!

!!!! <smile>

 

Personally, I don't like darts. They're ugly.
I also think a jacket should be tailored to the individual. Men who wear the same jacket size can range from a drop 10 to a drop +10. I wouldn't assume that they'd wear the same jacket any more than I'd assume they wear the same pants. It's called tailored clothing for a reason after all.

 

I think darts are a bigger deal with patterns. (You can barely see them on a navy blazer.) That said, I do like the waist suppression they provide. When I buy a Press sportcoat, I will have my tailor nip it a bit in the back seams. That way, I have the clean front I like in my sportscoats while maintaining the silhouette that I like.

 

darts

Darts just look horrible, and they don't DO anything! Like, I always wonder why people make darts. They suppress the waist by only 1-2 inches at most. Why wouldn't the factories suppress the jackets from the sides? I would think the process of making the darts would cost a lot of money. You have to pinch the jacket, and then you have to remove the extra material, and then you have to make the finishing look smooth. So troublesome.

As well as waist suppression, darts create fullness over the chest. This could also be achieved by putting a dart hidden under the lapels. I know some SR tailors use this dart (either with or without a front dart) to fit certain shapes or create a particular silhouette.

W_B

 

In connection with no particular post, or thread for that matter, I'd just like to say that with the exception of one of my company's sales guys, I have never in real life seen anyone that has a serious drop between chest and waist. Most men I've seen are probably close to 1:1, especially once middle-age sets in and the things get bigger. I must be living in the wrong part of the world to see such things, as are seen by forum members.

I wear a 42 chest and 38 waist, and I sure as hell ain't close to chubby. So unless you all are football players, and forgot to take off the padding when getting measured...

DocD

 

As well as waist suppression, darts create fullness over the chest. This could also be achieved by putting a dart hidden under the lapels. I know some SR tailors use this dart (either with or without a front dart) to fit certain shapes or create a particular silhouette.

W_B

I agree, darts give a jacket more structure, and makes the jacket look more formal, I guess.

 

Mel, looks like you might be looking for reasons to wear darts and are perhaps implying that sacks are for fat people and that this means that darts are ok if you are not particularly portly. If that's the case,you need not extrapolate from a generalization that is flawed just to wear a darted suit. Just wear what you want, but the darted and pleated are simply not trad. There are many svelte sack wearers out there.

Now hold on a minute. If you start suppressing the waist, wouldn't the purists claim that you've no longer got a sack? After all, you've done in the boxy, rectangular silhouette. If you'll all dig back into your J.Press catalogs from the fall, you'll note that this was an essential part of the Press explanation of the sack look. I believe one of the arch-Trads once opined that the absence of darts does not a sack make. This is the Trad Forum and rules are rules.

The only time I remember this being a major point of discussion was from a good Southern doctor who suggested, a bit tongue in cheek, that waist suppression was akin to darts because it had a slimming effect and therefore heresy (I believe the good doctor has quite a few darts and pleats in his wardrobe and I thought this was an attempt at a justification for such things at the time). Waist suppression has been used and recommended by many of those around here for some time.