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Clothing obsessed=gay???

27K views 104 replies 60 participants last post by  WinstonSpencer  
#1 ·
My wife just said something that really floored me. She thinks that at least half of the members here are gay (maybe more) because very few straight men, in her opinion, care about their appearance, or are really into clothes, to the extent we are.

How can I refute her assertion?
 
#2 ·
Well, there's one way that would take a lot of time and effort on your part. :D

If you don't want to go that far to win an argument, however, you could always say that you don't care.
 
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#3 ·
quote:Originally posted by Briguy

My wife just said something that really floored me. She thinks that at least half of the members here are gay (maybe more) because very few straight men, in her opinion, care about their appearance, or are really into clothes, to the extent we are.

How can I refute her assertion?
She is flat out wrong that "very few straight men" care about their appearance, but is correct that very few are "into" clothes.

The refutation is that you are straight. At least I assume so.

The internet is a huge sieve and sorting machine that allows like minded people to find each other.

Also note that by and large Homosexual men who are concerned about their clothing tend to either (a) be most interested in /fashion/, not the more staid stuff we discuss here, or (b) those who are interested in quality and propriety (which are most of the discussions here) are as small a majority of the Homosexual population as we are of the straight population.

<flame war>OTOH, I'd bet that a *large* number of the guys on the Style Forum, uh, don't wear their loafers as heavy...</flame war>

Just kidding.

The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know.
P.J. O'Rourke
 
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#4 ·
I suppose we could get our wives and girlfriends to give testimonials...

She's right that very few straight men care about their appearance. But most straight men have an obsession about something, whether it's a sport, photography, music, dogs, gardening, bird-watching, or whatever, so why not clothes and shoes? Most straight men like collecting things. For some it's stamps. For us it's cufflinks. Just classical masculine behaviour. What would she prefer, care about appearance or a house full of motorbike parts?
 
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#5 ·
Well you can tell her I collect quality clothing, shoes, watches, fine autos, and women in reverse order of importance and tell me what she says.


Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style
 
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#6 ·
Get a tuba and sing that song from that recent commercial:

I am a man,
yes I am!
I am a man,
a manly manly man!
 
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#8 ·
I don't agree with your wife's opinion about the demographics of this board, but her statement about society at large is correct. As mentioned earlier, the Internets have allowed like minded folks from different cities around the world to congregate virtually here to discuss clothing.

I guess you could ask her if she would agree that each city could have one straight man who was interested in his appearance and if that man was able to reach others through the internet, what would the venue look like.

Or we could just jump to the chase and I think your woman is jealous that you chose to devote time to discussions here rather than spend time with her and shot the gay barb to get you to pay more attention to her.
 
#9 ·
quote:Originally posted by maxnharry

I guess you could ask her if she would agree that each city could have one straight man who was interested in his appearance and if that man was able to reach others through the internet, what would the venue look like.
I would guess that many of the posters here are the only males at their place of work who really care about their appearance. I don't think anyone I work with or meet professionally could contribute anything useful to this forum.
 
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#10 ·
quote:Originally posted by jasstoltz

Funny, I thought homosexuality had to do with a preference for having sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
--- Now that's funny. So somehow your wife has wired up that if a man dresses well he wants to get it on with another man?

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style
 
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#11 ·
quote:How can I refute her assertion?
Take her from virtual to real. Bring her to the 2007 Collection of Sartorial Excellence, March 2nd & 3rd at the Regency Hotel. Bring her without her wedding ring. See what happens. Then rescue her.

Or just tell her to e-mail Amanda, Melissa, and Marissa, the hostesses from the 2006 Collection. They'll set her straight. No pun intended.

https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks *
 
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#12 ·
Ask her:

So by her logic, if a man doesn't dress well, doesn't care, is a slob, than he wants to get it on with women? Brillant deduction, so I better slob down, and the women will be asking me out left and right?

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style
 
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#14 ·
I would argue that a lot of the people are interested in a well made product. I care more about how I feel and how comfortable I am in than how someone whom I don't know would judge me. The thing that is often overlooked is that well made clothing, oxxford for instance, is a lot more comfortable. I have a pair of oxxford dress pants that feel better than any pair of jeans. My favorite suit feels like a big blanket and all these items have years and years of use and still look and feel wonderful. I think a lot of the discussion here is about quality.

Most of those shows like queer eye just have a completely different style and goal. In my opinion they are more brand focused like Hugo Boss and Armani while I think the people who love quality usually purchase items that are well made from obscure vendors.
 
#15 ·
Relatives have made "gay" comments to me before (I'm straight) because I have bought a lot of shoes and show an interest in dressing well. I suppose on the whole, gay guys have more of an interest and aptitude for such things, but I think looking good and being an educated consumer is something to strive for no matter what sexual preference.

Well over half of American men have no idea how to dress properly in formal, semi-formal, or business attire and look like uneducated slobs at work, interviews and formal functions. I know some bright lawyers who, because of their complete unawareness of decent business attire, always look like poor slobs. I seek knowledge, sophistication, and a professional image; if the masses consider that effeminate, then tough!

Also, I wonder if your wife thinks that half of GQ, Esquire, or Men's Health readers are gay?
 
#19 ·
Classic rejoinder here is from 1950s Los Angeles TV psychic Criswell, speaking at the top of low-rent alien-invasion flick PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE: "Can you *prove* it didn't happen?"

On my own part, I had a gf in college, but it was just a phase.

All these fora (AA, SF, LL), are pretty het-heavy, as far as I can detect. Anecdotal surveys and that posters do from time to time and my gaydar at SE 1.0 and 2.0 seem to support this.
 
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#20 ·
History demonstrates an interest in clothing, style, and 'looking good' is an extremely masculine characteristic. That it necessarily indicates homosexuality, is absurd. However, I do believe it points to differences in taste, class, and character that have nothing to do with sexual preferences.

I think American men remain vulgar slobs because they believe, like your wife, that an interest in clothing is a homosexual characteristic. The real reason, I suspect, is that most of them are naturally quite ignorant of sartorial matters, and in order to make themselves feel more secure and to save face in front of women they propagate the idea that men who actually know something about clothing are gay. It makes them feel better about themselves. It makes them feel good about their ignorance. Slob solidarity.

I say, let them wear their acid-washed jeans and beer belly t-shirts and infantile sneakers and untucked stripey shirts and square-toed duck-billed clown shoes. It makes the relatively few adults who do dress well look so much better. :D

I have to laugh, though. Stop caring, and they call us 'slobs.' Start caring, and they call us 'gay.' Damned if we do, damned if we don't. ;)
 
#21 ·
quote:Originally posted by Old Brompton
I say, let them wear their acid-washed jeans and beer belly t-shirts and infantile sneakers and untucked stripey shirts and square-toed duck-billed clown shoes. It makes the relatively few adults who do dress well look so much better. :D
Word!

And women do notice well-dressed men. Unfortunately, they then often think the guy must be gay or European! :D
 
#23 ·
Its a stereotype whether you care or not.

Besides the comfort and quality aspects, I think it comes down to knowledge and sophistication. It's like knowing what wine to order with dinner, how to appreciate art and music, how to correctly tie a tie, what shoes are appropriate for a business meeting, etc.
 
#25 ·
Well, the "clotheshorse"="gay" stereotype certainly is a durable one, one that my wife tends to subscribe to, and one is left to wonder how it arose. I am inclined to think it is of quite recent vintage. Certainly, if one looks at how men of wealth adorned themselves in the middle ages, right through the early modern period (e.g., cavaliers in their "gay" [before the word took on its present connotation] apparel), 18th century fops, early 19th century dandies, etc., to say nothing of military uniforms in the early to mid 19th century, indubitably "manly" men took great pains about their appearance, and in many respects this continued down through the 1930s and into the 1940s.

I can't help wondering if a lot of popular cinema wasn't responsible for this notion: The buckskin-clad frontiersman is wiser and more virile than the foppish British officer who leads his redcoats into the Indian ambush. The cowboy is much more virile and competent than the dandified dude and tinhorn gambler. (Curious, given that a number of the deadliest gunfighters of the frontier--Wild Bill, Dallas Stoudenmire, Long Jim Courtwright, just to name a few--were very considerable dandies.) The heroic American G.I is in his mud-stained and torn battle fatigues while the cruel Nazi officer is always impeccably uniformed, and so it goes.... The message is that the "real" man, the "he-man" is something of a grub while the well-turned out man is innately less competent and effete, and hence more likely to be out-and-out gay.

Okay, apologies for the stereotyping here: I realize that a goodly number of gays, especially certain subsets of the gay culture, are tough as hell and often hyper-masculine. However, the mindset that equates "well dressed" and "homosexual" no doubt also stereotypes gay men as all a bunch of preening Nellies. Having spent much of my adult life living and/or working in proximity to large gay male population centers, I never discerned any difference in the way gay men dressed and their straight counterparts, i.e., usually rather poorly!
 
#26 ·
quote:Originally posted by Sophistication

quote:Originally posted by jasstoltz

Funny, I thought homosexuality had to do with a preference for having sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
--- Now that's funny. So somehow your wife has wired up that if a man dresses well he wants to get it on with another man?

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style
And if a women dresses poorly?

"Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten" Stefano Bemer
 
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