I have a few Talbott seven folds and they are my best ties. I prefer heavier woven ties and these make perfect knots that stay taught and tied all day with very few adjustments. I tried one that was printed rather than woven and it seemed too slippery and smooth. The knot was OK at first but became loose quickly. Woven ties have texture and I suppose that's what keeps the knot tight longer.

 

I don't think hand-made or not is a salient issue here. Something can be poorly made by hand just as can be properly constructed by machine. There are a number of more important factors when evaluating the quality of a tie.

Many so-called seven fold ties now do have (gasp!) just six folds. Again, I don't think this is really a relevant issue when it comes to judging the quality.

You "tell" the number of folds by counting them. I don't think many people are making seven fold ties in the way they originally were (unlined, from a single piece of silk, with folds there to add weight and structure); indeed, I think most of the so-called seven fold ties out there today are lined and the folds are really just a gimmick, for lack of a better word.

I really don't get the statement that seven fold ties may not be easy to "knot successfully." In my experience, more substantial ties - regardless of folds - hold the structure of the knot better without adjustment through the entirety of a day; as seven fold ties are particularly substantial, it stands to reason that they'll hold particularly well, and that is my experience with them.

 

The knot was OK at first but became loose quickly.

Thanks PMRuby -- this is what I meant about an unsuccessful knot.

 

I have handled 7-fold ties that were indeed fabulous. Thick and liquid to the touch. But I have never owned or wanted one. Even if they are the ultimate work of the tie maker's art, I consider them pointless from my perspective.

While the tie is a very important element of the finished ensemble, for me it is essentially an accent piece of secondary importance compared to the tailored clothing and shoes. I have over 100 single-ply ties of good quality, and consider them beautiful and entirely satisfactory. They each tie a beautiful knot and hang straight, which is all I require them to do. I see no point in paying a premium when that money can be better used on tailoring or shoes.

So while they may or may not be a fad, I do consider them a needless elaboration compared to conventional, high-quality ties.

 

Haffman,

Sorry for the late reply.

How slowly and carefully a tie is made is more important than the type of construction by far.

Unlined ties do lose their shape - wool interlinings really help a tie over time. Knots are a personal decision no set answer.

A single piece of silk is rarely part of an unlined 7-fold and is not important.

The quality of the silk is very important.

In Italy many lined 6-folds are called 7-folds - I don't know why, but it is simply wrong. I am not sure but fake may be too strong of a word - maybe a language problem?

 

I only have one seven fold - it is a bit of a monster in terms of the overall mass of fabric. Beautifully constructed and nice silk but a bit hard to tie. I bought it out of curiosity. I don't think it is really "my thing." I do think I could become a Charvet tie addict...

 

I've got two or three, all by Samuel Windsor. I only wear one of them- the others don't suit my tastes and I should really get around to selling/donating them. The silk is extremely smooth and the whole structure fairly rigid. I for one find them extremely easy to tie- much more so than unlined or thinner specimens- but I go for the no-dimple, full ample windsor with an arch. They are so think that I could never wear them on any collar less wide than a semi-spread. For the record, I found another SW -damaged- in a thrift shop and bought it to rip it open and scheck the inside. It was beautifully made and properly lined.

 

Haffman,

Sorry for the late reply.

How slowly and carefully a tie is made is more important than the type of construction by far.

Unlined ties do lose their shape - wool interlinings really help a tie over time. Knots are a personal decision no set answer.

A single piece of silk is rarely part of an unlined 7-fold and is not important.

The quality of the silk is very important.

In Italy many lined 6-folds are called 7-folds - I don't know why, but it is simply wrong. I am not sure but fake may be too strong of a word - maybe a language problem?

Thank you very much David. I was interested to hear that the single piece of silk is not that important to a 7-fold tie as I had mistakenly thought that this was the core principle. As for the mislabelling of the 7-fold, the term seems to have developed a cache so that it is seen as a hallmark of quality without the customer necessarily being clear what it means (guilty :redface...perhaps that has led to it's use being debased, as with so many things in clothing...

Anyway I certainly know where to come when it's time to try a 'proper' 7 fold :smile:

 

I like the hefty knot you get when using a 4 in hand with a 7 fold.

 

Thank you very much David. I was interested to hear that the single piece of silk is not that important to a 7-fold tie as I had mistakenly thought that this was the core principle. As for the mislabelling of the 7-fold, the term seems to have developed a cache so that it is seen as a hallmark of quality without the customer necessarily being clear what it means (guilty :redface...perhaps that has led to it's use being debased, as with so many things in clothing...

Anyway I certainly know where to come when it's time to try a 'proper' 7 fold :smile:

Sorry for the late reply.

A custom made tie is typically made very slowly and carefully - if a tie has a single piece of silk it is going to be very difficult to adjust the length longer and this is often necessary in the tie making process.

Also what is the benefit of a single piece of silk except in some formal wear where the collar is turned up.

"I like the hefty knot you get when using a 4 in hand with a 7 fold."

Shiny,

I wonder if it is a true unlined 7-fold that you are using as I have never seen an unlined 7-fold that makes larger knots than lined ties that are a 3 or 6-fold construction.

Keep in mind many 7-folds are actually lined 6-folds and that Italian 7-folds will often have some interlining in the knot area.

 

Dear David, One day I will buy ties from you. Meanwhile, I was in Rome and bought some really nice 7-fold ties from Damiano Presta. Because it is an italian manufacturer, I have no idea if it is really a 7 or 6-fold tie, but I don't really care, as the ties are beautiful. They are substantial and tie a nice knot, so I am happy. Even if they are the epitome of tie making, wearing a 7-fold italian hand-made tie (or a Sam Hober for that matter) is something that is done for oneself, as it would be very hard to notice the peculiarities of such a tie as compared to other high-quality ties. I was complimented on wearing the Presta ties, but because I think they are beautiful and not because they were seven (or six) folds. It is not a fad, but a personal preference that in the grand of schemes does not make a huge difference.

 

Dear David, One day I will buy ties from you. Meanwhile, I was in Rome and bought some really nice 7-fold ties from Damiano Presta. Because it is an italian manufacturer, I have no idea if it is really a 7 or 6-fold tie, but I don't really care, as the ties are beautiful. They are substantial and tie a nice knot, so I am happy. Even if they are the epitome of tie making, wearing a 7-fold italian hand-made tie (or a Sam Hober for that matter) is something that is done for oneself, as it would be very hard to notice the peculiarities of such a tie as compared to other high-quality ties. I was complimented on wearing the Presta ties, but because I think they are beautiful and not because they were seven (or six) folds. It is not a fad, but a personal preference that in the grand of schemes does not make a huge difference.

Sounds like you had a great time on your trip.

I agree with you that purchasing a beautiful Italian tie when you are in Italy is a great idea.

Also luxury ties are indeed to make a man happy.