[MTM_Master?]

Hi everyone,
I've been looking into the classic forward vs. reverse pleat debate and had a few residual questions:

1) It seems forward pleats are traditionally U.K., and reverse pleats are more commonly U.S. styling. Is my info wrong here?

2) Does anybody have any comparison pictures between the two pleat styles? Ideally, the comparison pics would be of two very similar slacks, the only difference being the pleats.

3) Thoughts on what is more formal? Is it generally a good rule of thumb to wear forward pleats with formal trousers and reverse pleats for all others? (yes-i'm aware of flat fronts but don't really care for them-no offense)

4)Lastly-what options go best with either style? i.e.-double reverse pleats vs single reverse pleats, double forward pleats vs single forward pleats

Thanks in advance for all thoughts, opinions, and advice!!

 

[Matt S]

1) Forward pleats are traditionally English, but I associate reverse pleats more with Italian clothing. American clothing used to be more divided between the two, but reverse pleats dominate now. There are still a number of American shops where you can find forward pleats, and they are mostly high-end shops.

2) Both in cotton twill:
Forward Pleats

Reverse Pleats

3) I consider forward pleats to be more formal. White Tie and morning dress don't look right to me with reverse-pleated trousers. Forward pleats are the way to go with those, but flat fronts trousers are also acceptable. I prefer forward pleats for all other trousers as well, whether part of a suit, odd trousers, or chinos. I personally don't see a place for reverse-pleated trousers when forward pleats can get the job done better, IMHO.

4) Double pleats are usually a better choice when getting clothes off the pegs, in either direction. The second pleat helps to keep the main one closed. Single pleats are great too, but they need to be fitted properly.

 

[Bonhamesque]

I don't know if this will help but I consider forward pleats to be more of a retro style because they were most prominent around the 1930's (?).
Most conventional off-the-rack trousers will come with reverse pleats whether you're buying them in the UK or the US so the forward pleats are for people who want something different.

Personally I find that forward pleats never really hang as well as reverse pleats. The reverse pleats tend to look sharper.

 

[cmacey]

I have said this before in another posting...I use to wear forward pleats; but for some reason, I switched to reverse pleats. I find them to look great, much to the chagrin of my sisters - they hate pleats. Either way is a personal choice. So if you have sisters like mine, ignore them!, and wear what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[Matt S]

I don't know if this will help but I consider forward pleats to be more of a retro style because they were most prominent around the 1930's (?).
Most conventional off-the-rack trousers will come with reverse pleats whether you're buying them in the UK or the US so the forward pleats are for people who want something different.

Personally I find that forward pleats never really hang as well as reverse pleats. The reverse pleats tend to look sharper.

I find that many UK clothing websites sell forward pleats, both expensive and inexpensive. Charles Tyrwhitt was making forward pleats up until about 2 or 3 years ago. Compared to online retailers based in America, many more UK stores sell forward pleats. Also, most Savile Row tailors seem to prefer forward pleats. Forward pleats have been popular at times since the 30's. I usually see forward pleats in 1960's British films and television. Forward pleats came back along with reverse pleats in the 1980's. I wear forward pleats because I find that they hang better than reverse pleats. But that is only the case if the trousers have some extra room in the seat and thighs. If you want to see forward pleats that hang well, look at almost any suit from Anderson & Sheppard. Drape is their speciality.

 

[Flanderian]

I prefer forward pleats because I believe they just look better. I only wear pleated slacks, and the only reason that many are reverse is that they aren't all bespoke or MTM, and forward pleats are much harder to find. I have no way of knowing if there is a dominance of one form or the other between the UK and US, but prior to the '40's I don't recall seeing many if any reverse pleats, and I think they were the norm in both countries

 

[MTM_Master?]

Matt-thanks for the pictures!
And thanks for everyone else's input too!

 

[GBR]

I would suggest forward pleats for suits to give that slight degree of formality but reverse pleats for trousers to mitigate it.

 

[lizardking]

Other functions of pleats

My tailor recommended forward pleats because they have the effect of making the trousers look a bit slimmer at the hips. I carry too much extra weight. Reverse pleats open up and make the outer sides of the pants blouse out a bit at the hips. Forward pleats keep the slack inside the edges of the silhouette. (The tailor is from England, so there is cultural bias, too).

My trousers all have single pleats and I don't have a problem with the crease hanging well. Of course, I wear braces and the pants are tailored to fit.

 

[RipRoar]

Caveat

Forward pleats *can* look cleaner and drape better than reverse pleats, but the trousers must be worn at the real waist for this to work. Most people today - majority of this board not included - wear their trousers too low on the hips to pull off forward pleats. I am one of these.

 

[tinytim]

My tailor recommended forward pleats because they have the effect of making the trousers look a bit slimmer at the hips. I carry too much extra weight. Reverse pleats open up and make the outer sides of the pants blouse out a bit at the hips. Forward pleats keep the slack inside the edges of the silhouette. (The tailor is from England, so there is cultural bias, too).

My trousers all have single pleats and I don't have a problem with the crease hanging well. Of course, I wear braces and the pants are tailored to fit.

I've heard that a lot about forward pleats. Personally, I just don't see any difference. I've got both types. They look the same on me. Maybe it's because I'm kind of slim to start.

 

[Flanderian]

My tailor recommended forward pleats because they have the effect of making the trousers look a bit slimmer at the hips. I carry too much extra weight. Reverse pleats open up and make the outer sides of the pants blouse out a bit at the hips. Forward pleats keep the slack inside the edges of the silhouette.

Yes they do. Thanks for that important distinction.

 

[MTM_Master?]

My tailor recommended forward pleats because they have the effect of making the trousers look a bit slimmer at the hips. I carry too much extra weight. Reverse pleats open up and make the outer sides of the pants blouse out a bit at the hips. Forward pleats keep the slack inside the edges of the silhouette. (The tailor is from England, so there is cultural bias, too).

My trousers all have single pleats and I don't have a problem with the crease hanging well. Of course, I wear braces and the pants are tailored to fit.

Gents-thanks for the help! Is the effect more limited while wearing a jacket, or can the effect be the same?

 

[Kurt N]

Reverse pleats open up and make the outer sides of the pants blouse out a bit at the hips. Forward pleats keep the slack inside the edges of the silhouette.

Can anyone give a clear explanation of why this would be so? In the archived threads, some people say they find forward pleats hug the body better, while others claim reverse pleats do. Since the empirical evidence is so inconclusive, it would be nice to see an argument based on how the cloth naturally drapes and pulls. But I couldn't find any such explanation that really spelled it out.

If I had to guess, I would say that either style hugs the hips equally well on the sides, because the fabric curves around, but with reverse pleats the front of the trousers is more likely to bag outward (forward), because that part of the waist or hips is flatter and with reverse pleats that part of the fabric is on top and so not held in by anything. But I'm not a tailor and so that's just a guess.

I suppose the forward-pleat crowd could follow up with yes, reverse pleats are more likely to open up for the reason I just described. But once the pleat is open, there's more slack for the sides to bag out, too. Maybe that's what lizardking was getting at (?).

 

[CuffDaddy]

FWIW, I think the whole forward vs. reverse pleat thing is somewhat overdone. That said, I prefer forward pleats for two reasons: 1) they're less common, and therefore unusual while being classic, and therefore cool; and 2) the forward opening means that an observer from the front can see into the crevice of the pleat if it pulls open at all. The latter point means that the observer can really see the pleat, and it creates a higher-contrast vertical element. Since the vertical element is one of the big advantages of pleats, that's good, IMO.

I find it very funny, though, that many here say they prefer "flat-fronts or forward pleats," because forward pleats are the "pleat-iest" of pleats. They're more apparent to a viewer, they're often deeper, etc. It seems to me that, if you like flat-fronts, you would hate forward pleats the most, and reverse pleats less since they're closer to flat-front. That this isn't the case makes it seem as though their opposition to reverse pleats is based on regurgitation of GQ/Esquire-grade advice and/or having seen lots of cheap, poorly-cut pants that happened to have reverse pleats on them.

 

[Flanderian]

Can anyone give a clear explanation of why this would be so?

It's a result of the design. Try a pair of each and you'll observe this in action.

 

[Kurt N]

Flanderian, there's got to be a way to describe it, instead of just "compare and you'll see." Maybe it's evident to you, but not to me. (This may just reflect a difference in expertise, to be sure.)

CuffDaddy, your explanation is the clearest I've seen so far on this topic, and it may be correct. I hadn't thought of that at all. Re. the flat-front-or-forward-pleat crowd, maybe their reply is hey, we believe in no half-measures. If you're gonna have pleats, have PLEATS!!

 

[Flanderian]

Flanderian, there's got to be a way to describe it, instead of just "compare and you'll see." Maybe it's evident to you, but not to me. (This may just reflect a difference in expertise, to be sure.)

CuffDaddy, your explanation is the clearest I've seen so far on this topic, and it may be correct. I hadn't thought of that at all. Re. the flat-front-or-forward-pleat crowd, maybe their reply is hey, we believe in no half-measures. If you're gonna have pleats, have PLEATS!!

OK, Kurt, I'll take CuffDaddy for five! :icon_smile_big:

A picture is worth a thosand words. In the two photos above, the gent with his hands in his pockets bowing out the pleats is wearing forward pleated slacks, but the line of the pleats still remain within his hips. If the man in the photo below did the same thing, the line of the pleats might very well fall beyond.

 

[Kurt N]

^ Ah ... ! That buzzing sound is a light bulb flickering feebly to life.

I failed to take account of where the pleat meets the waistband. Thinking about your comment and earlier ones, and looking at the pix, I realize that while the tailor may have a little maneuvering room, there's a natural tendency for a forward pleat to end up closer to the midline of the trousers than a reverse pleat would. The creased edge lies closer in, and the excess fabric is distributed more toward the inseam and farther from the outseam.

Sorry if this was a "no, duh" type of insight. But have I got it now?

 

[Flanderian]

^ Ah ... ! That buzzing sound is a light bulb flickering feebly to life.

I failed to take account of where the pleat meets the waistband. Thinking about your comment and earlier ones, and looking at the pix, I realize that while the tailor may have a little maneuvering room, there's a natural tendency for a forward pleat to end up closer to the midline of the trousers than a reverse pleat would. The creased edge lies closer in, and the excess fabric is distributed more toward the inseam and farther from the outseam.

Sorry if this was a "no, duh" type of insight. But have I got it now?

Good description! Sounds about right to me.