[Leather man]

A slightly provocative title maybe but behind it lies a serious question. With the advent of Gaziano and Girling RTW and MTO shoes why Edward Green?

I have been a fan of Edward Green but G&G offer more exciting shoes that fit you if EG fit you. They offer far more for the money at a similar price point than EG.

Yet somehow I don't want to abandon EG - so I am asking if any of the shoe experts on the forum have a good reason for sticking with them and perhaps buying from both companies.

I know much of what motives our choice is subjective, but are there any objective reasons to continue to support EG despite the advent of G&G?

I seem to remember on another thread one person was concerned that there might not be room for another top end shoemaker in England and that indeed EG might suffer from G&G coming to the market.:icon_pale:

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

LM

 

[Rossini]

The most obvious reason, to me at least, is that which you allude to in your own post: G&G are more exciting shoes, but EG offers a range of very traditional designs - there is an overlap here but generally the style of both houses is sufficiently different to cause different people to want them or the same person to want them for different reasons.

Allied to this is the question of lasts: partly for style but also for fit - some will always find that one maker or one last type fits them better than the others.

Also, to date only EG has a sale?

 

[Leather man]

Thank you Rossini for such a speedy reply and for your very interesting and sensible points :icon_smile:

LM

 

[medwards]

The converse of your question was the topic of much discussion when Mr Gaziano decided to leave Edward Green and established his ready-made/made-to-order shoe venture. Given Edward Green's offerings, quality, history, price and market presence, what void would Gaziano and Girling be filling? Was the market large enough to accomodate another high quality British shoemaker? Could G&G find a strong enough client base to sustain such an undertaking? While I do not know the financials of either company, it certainly appears that there is indeed room for both. Indeed, I am a customer of both firms (though only bespoke in the case of G&G) and am likely to remain so.

Now let me respond to your specific question a bit more fully. Edward Green -- though it has gone through some rather difficult times in the past -- is a well-established company with strong retail relationships and a rather loyal customer base. It currently has some 75 different models of shoes in its catalogue...and each of these can be ordered on a variety of lasts and in a wide array of leathers, colors and finishes. Moreover, these offerings span virtually the complete range of classic British footwear. It encompasses not only traditional city wear, but a solid selection of country shoes as well as boots and slippers. Its lasts not only offer a range of looks, but a range of fits as well. It has a prominent retail outlet and its shoes are also stocked by a limited number of additional retailers. Moreover, it has recently added its Top Drawer program, which allows customers not only to add additional style details but also make alterations to the basic shoe design and construction. Gaziano & Girling has established what I see as a complementary approach. Its designs -- while based on the classics -- have a more "modern" and individualized look. However, at present, there are less than two dozen styles in their catalogue and only a dozen of these models in their standard stock inventory; everything else must be made to measure. Finding G&G shoes is far more challenging than obtaining Edward Green footwear at present.

It is my hope that G&G continues to grow and that both firms continue to flourish. We are better off for having them both.

 

[aportnoy]

What Rossini said. It's a style issue for me. G&G are too flashy and their lasts too aggressive. With 82, 888, 808, 606 and 202, EG has multiple lasts that I really like. Also, EG's back catalog of models which they will happily make up is a great plus.

Lastly, if you need the extras like the beveled waist etc., EG offers a Top Drawer range which, IMHO, is on par with G&G's finishing.

 

[Rossini]

It's worth noting that the G&G Roadmap shows there is a plan to fill some of the gaps to which you refer but clearly it will take some time to be able to offer the range of lasts, models, and leathers offered by EG (if that is their intention):

Design and Development Timeline

OCTOBER 2006
Contemporary and classic men's range

JANUARY 2008
Men's casual lace-ups and boots

JANUARY 2009
Made to order and high specification slippers

JANUARY 2010
Handmade bags and accessories

JANUARY 2011
Bench made ladies' range

 

[medwards]

Yes, and I believe the firm is being very prudent in terms of not over extending itself in its development. The pace and range of these additiions is very measured. I believe that will be much to the company's benefit in the long term. But at present, the fact remains that G&G offers a far more limited range of footwear than does Edward Green.

 

[Leather man]

Thank you Medwards for contributing to this thread, it is great to have your view on the matter considering your wide and deep knowledge of the ins and outs of high end footwear.

To Andrew - I would just say that whilst I understand what you are saying , EGs Top Drawer costs about £300 a pair more than G&G. Yes, you get more flexibility with TD and if that's what you are after then it is the programme for you. But if it is the spade shaped sole and bevelled waist then G&Gs is probably better for a lot less money.

I think that whilst I love G&G shoes ( well the two pairs I have at the moment and the ones I have seen in Edwards, Manchester) it is the traditional look that keeps drawing me back to Edward Green.

So perhaps like Medwards I am coming to the conclusion that there's a place for both in the market and in my wardrobe. :icon_smile:

 

[RJman]

Lastly, if you need the extras like the beveled waist etc., EG offers a Top Drawer range which, IMHO, is on par with G&G's finishing.

I'd say TD is better finished, but it's a hell of a lot more expensive.

However, I agree with medwards. And G&G is a lot easier to deal with in terms of customer service than EG, which sometimes can be quite bloody-minded in a British kind of way.

 

[well-kept]

There are intangibles imparted by EGs. Not to get mystical about a material object but I find they impart a sense of well-being which lasts through the day. Dissecting, weighing and measuring would probably not reveal the engine.

 

[luk-cha]

i think we need both EG and G&G as which the depth of EG catalog and history and with a more modern and contempary feel with G&G.

i have seen both EG's TD and the new samples from G&G i think apart from the price to compare the finishing is like comparing apples to pears!

i dont think G&G are any more agrestively stlyed than some of the other brands which are out there, and what with some of EG newer designs which had been posted on leather soul's website perhaps EG are also thinking in this line too

i think if both EG and G&G play to there strengths then there is room in the market for both and we as fan's and customers can get the best of both brands!

 

[Mr. Chatterbox]

But at present, the fact remains that G&G offers a far more limited range of footwear than does Edward Green.

Unless one travels the bespoke route. :icon_smile_big::

 

[medwards]

Edward Green, of course, no longer offers a bespoke service now that Tony Gaziano is no longer with the firm.

 

[aportnoy]

Leaving bespoke out of the equation, as I've sen multiple stunning examples on Tony's work, G&G RTW, from a styling perspective, leaves me utterly cold. Most every model is a little off to my eye as I think they are going for a modern approach to classic English footwear that jsut doesn't work.

G&G apparently fills a niche in the market but I've yet to see the G&G shoe that compares favorably to Dover, Ecton, Falkirk or Beaulieu. I wonder if the response to G&G would be as positive were they owned by a maker who unlike Tony did not have immediate name recognition and an existing cult of personality?

 

[DocHolliday]

G&G apparently fills a niche in the market but I've yet to see the G&G shoe that compares favorably to Dover, Ecton, Falkirk or Beaulieu. I wonder if the response to G&G would be as positive were they owned by a maker who unlike Tony did not have immediate name recognition and an existing cult of personality?

A, I'm with you, in general, but think you're being a bit harsh on this last point. I share your assessment of the more aggressive lasts, and some of the G&G styles strike me as trying too hard. (A criticism I also level at Lobb.) That said, I can believe that folks genuinely like them. Many posters seem to enjoy that sort of stylized, eye-grabbing look -- look at how many folks drool over the Kiton shoes, which often strike me as unwearable. If anything, I think G&G may lure the folks who would normally buy flashier shoes into a bit of English styling. Like you, it doesn't work for me, but I don't go for flashy in general.

If the forums have taught me anything, it's that, boy, tastes vary.

 

[iammatt]

A, I'm with you, in general, but think you're being a bit harsh on this last point. I share your assessment of the more aggressive lasts, and some of the G&G styles strike me as trying too hard. (A criticism I also level at Lobb.) That said, I can believe that folks genuinely like them. Many posters seem to enjoy that sort of stylized, eye-grabbing look -- look at how many folks drool over the Kiton shoes, which often strike me as unwearable. If anything, I think G&G may lure the folks who would normally buy flashier shoes into a bit of English styling. Like you, it doesn't work for me, but I don't go for flashy in general.

If the forums have taught me anything, it's that, boy, tastes vary.

I agree with this, but I have to agree with Andrew and say that I do not see them as the best choice... ever. To my eye, they are most similar to the French style of English shoes, but the designs are not as good. In bespoke, I think that you would be making a mistake to pick G&G over a Gomez, Delos or Lobb Paris (obviously more expensive) as the latter three make more elegant, more beautiful shoes in a similar style. In RTW, there is little like G&G, but Vass in the Italian lasts and EG seem to give a better look than G&G while encircling it as far as style goes. The C&J handgrade series has a similar look in some lasts, but I think they are more elegant and less out there overall.

I guess I am just another one of those who is missing the beauty...

 

[Teacher]

I don't buy either, but if I did, it would be EG for the basic reasons Aportnoy and iammatt pointed out: the lasts of GG are just to fashion-forward for my taste. I actually do like a lot of their designs, but I can't get past the long-toed lasts.

 

[Roger]

My feeling is that G&G have had to take basic, well-balanced designs and move them off in a more modern (for lack of a better term) direction, partly because they can't be seen as simply copying EG shoes, the latter incorporating really sound and appealing design features. For this reason, we don't have the Dover in the G&G lineup, for example, but rather the Hove, which, to my eye, seems just a little off (perhaps it's the four eyelets, or the fact that the Dover captured the genre perfectly, and any spin-off was going to be necessarily inferior). In addition, to avoid the appearance of copying EG (and others') designs, we have what appear to my eye somewhat off-putting angled toe caps and other features. Perhaps Tony Gaziano, coming from EG, felt particularly sensitive about this--i.e., not being seen as merely copying what were already very good designs at EG.

 

[Leather man]

Those of you who have seen EG Top Drawer and G&G lately ( their soles have got even better) how would you say TD is better finished? Do you mean just the uppers, or do you include the soles too?

I have to say, this is all very interesting! :icon_smile:

 

[Leather man]

Would it not be fair to say that G&G also offer a more traditional last - their round toed last and also that their smart round last is much like EGs 82 last?

Also, I think one of our esteemed shoe experts - either JCusey or Medwards thought that the Gable model which is in their RTW catalogue was a wonderful shoe.