[Rollo]

I have been told to avoid online MTM. From what I have seen and experienced, it may be very solid advice, especially with suits. Less so I think with shirts.

So, I have seen the horror, felt the outrage, and cringed at the awfulness that is often online MTM. But WHY? Why does it fail?

1. Are people being to picky? Are they expecting a $100. shirt or 300. suit to be the same as a Savile Row bespoke garment? Are they upset about some trivial detail, the kind you read about from online fashion and style blogs, that isn't quite right?

2. Incompetence. The people running the online MTM business are clueless at some or all levels of the operation. There are bad tailors out there and bad workers. But really, how bad can you be and still be in business? Luxire was putting out these horrible pants, which seemed to twist and scrunch in the butt. How hard can it be for a professional clothing manufacturer to put out a proper pair of pants!

3. Hard to fit bodies. This one seems to be the most likely culprit to me. I don't believe most MTM companies are incompetent. I don't believe everyone is being overly picky. But I suspect many of the horror stories happen when a tough to fit body meets tailors who are over their heads with anything out of the ordinary.

4. Or maybe online MTM is fine in some case and not in others. Shirts seem simple, so maybe you can get a good result in that area. But suit jackets are tough and so many things can go wrong. So maybe online MTM works but has its limits. That being said, I failed twice with online MTM shirts.

Seriously, I once sewed a button on my shirt. That is it. I have never worked in the clothes business, not even as a cashier at the Gap. But for the life of me I can't understand, if all I want is a simple pair of pants with a smaller waist than is offered OTR and a specific leg opening within a normal range, and a specific fabric--nothing unusual--why is it so difficult to get right?

On a positive note, I am the owner of an Aero 1930s half belt that fits perfect. It was limited MTM with a fit jacket used to get things right before cutting and sewing. Most people I have seen with Aeros seem to get a good to great result. So it is possible. So why does it fail so often?

 

[SG_67]

1) Inconsistent measurements.

2) too many steps removed from the actual production process.

3) incompetent merchant

The list goes on. Unless one lives in the woods as a recluse, there are any number of real options. Fit is a very personal thing. One mans slim fit is another’s baggy fit.

 

[Matt S]

There are too many things that can go wrong. With suits, the shape has so many dimensions that only an experienced tailor who knows the MTM system can measure someone to make a suit fit properly. My brother and I have the same chest measurement, but he is a bit larger in back and I'm a bit larger in front. It makes a tremendous difference when fitting a jacket. Plenty of things are not taken into account in online MTM, like sleeve pitch, sleeve width and front and rear trouser rise.

I've seen plenty of online MTM who don't know how to cut a suit properly. They don't shape the suit to the average human body. The fullness is often not in the right places, even though the measurements may be correct. Knowing how to shape a jacket and trousers takes proper training. Many of the people involved in online MTM do not come from a good tailoring background.

Shirts are much easier to fit because they are made 2-dimensionally. The biggest problem I see in shirts (which is now a problem in many RTW shirts from reputable brands) is that the sleeves are attached at the wrong angle. Shirt sleeves now are often narrow with a large armhole. This makes the shirt feel constricting, even if the measurements all seem to be correct.

So often, the starting block dooms the fit. On top of that, there are too many things that a customer cannot do without the tailor making the suit being present. Having done MTM in person by reputable makers and by new online companies, there's a tremendous difference that easily explains why it can't be done online.

 

[The Irishman]

Even MTM with a fitting in person didn’t yield acceptable results in my experience with Zegna.

The measuring process was fine, the errors appear to have occurred back in the factories. I guess with so many variables there are a lot of chances for the wrong box to be ticked, and a “small” error matters with MTM.

I wouldn’t chance it again to be honest, it was very frustrating.

I maintain it is either best to go with either RTW (and a local tailor if needed) or else ... the whole hog...

The above is just my personal view.

 

[3piece]

If online MTM companies actually made the garments themselves, perhaps the failure rate would be a lot smaller. Many of them outsource the work, though.

 

[JBierly]

Even MTM with a fitting in person didn't yield acceptable results in my experience with Zegna.

I have actually had pretty decent experience with MTM with Zegna. I think it depends a lot on the person doing the measurements. My best luck (actually it isn't luck because he knows what he is doing) has been with a very skilled tailor who has been in business for 49 years.

 

[Dhaller]

Well, I would certainly never, ever take my own measurements (or have my wife do it, or whatever) because I am sure that half the skill of a good tailor is taking insightful measurements. Not all 32" waists are the same - some are rock hard, others are doughy soft (I war ever harder to maintain the former!)

Shoes, same thing - no way I'm stepping on a printout from the Internet and thinking I'm getting an accurate measure.

Plus, frankly, a visit to a tailor is a man's "spa day". My wife and daughter can pop down the the St. Regis for a spa day and manipedi or whatever... I mean, I guess I could too, theoretically, but somehow women have the ability to not be bored beyond belief at a spa (my usual response when I find myself dragged along). A spa makes them look good; a tailor works better for me! Why give that up?

DH

 

[Shaver]

> online tailor
> made to measure

Pick one

 

[Shaver]

New thread:

Why Does Online Stereotactic Neurosurgery Fail So Often?

 

[aps2012]

All the reasons given are plausible and perhaps even likely. And I've never done it myself, largely because I fit off the rack pretty well, and I've lived in major metropolitan areas where I have access to a good variety of B&M, and so I don't see a huge advantage.

However, I'd like to ask why you say "so often"? Maybe they are all surviving off new customers and can afford not to have repeat customers or losses from word of mouth but I'd venture that there are at least a few who are surviving, or will survive because of repeat customers and referrals, i.e. basic success and service.

"Often" can only properly be judged when you know what the underlying "n" is and the otherwise expected rate of return on an alternative is. You are far more likely to see horror stories reported online than general satisfaction, or even extreme happiness.

 

[Rollo]

All the reasons given are plausible and perhaps even likely. And I've never done it myself, largely because I fit off the rack pretty well, and I've lived in major metropolitan areas where I have access to a good variety of B&M, and so I don't see a huge advantage.

However, I'd like to ask why you say "so often"? Maybe they are all surviving off new customers and can afford not to have repeat customers or losses from word of mouth but I'd venture that there are at least a few who are surviving, or will survive because of repeat customers and referrals, i.e. basic success and service.

"Often" can only properly be judged when you know what the underlying "n" is and the otherwise expected rate of return on an alternative is. You are far more likely to see horror stories reported online than general satisfaction, or even extreme happiness.

Good point. People satisfied rarely complain or even take the time to express satisfaction.

Still, there are forums with dedicated threads to certain ATM companies and even there I don't see stellar work too often.

 

[Charles Dana]

New thread:

Why Does Online Stereotactic Neurosurgery Fail So Often?

Good suggestion for a new thread. Let's see if we can wrap our brains around that one.

 

[Shaver]

Good suggestion for a new thread. Let's see if we can wrap our brains around that one.

"Just Got My Wedding Brain Back From The Lobotomist - How Does It Look?"

 

[Charles Dana]

"Just Got My Wedding Brain Back From The Lobotomist - How Does It Look?"

Still too many creases in the cerebrum. But I think a little lift in the hippocampus will solve it.

 

[Flanderian]

Examine their business model. They are in the business of making money, not clothing.

Instead of asking why on-line MTM fails, ask yourself why does a business that spends more on advertising than making clothing, dependent upon the grossly ignorant and incompetent (The purchaser!) for very specific and nuanced measurements, sent to and cobbled together by lowest common denominator slave labor unconcerned with quality and determined to wring every penny they can from the production process fail.

I wonder?

Edit: Oh! In case you take offense as to the generalized characterization of "grossly ignorant and incompetent" how many times have we been entreated by the woebegone to explain why their just tried on clothing looks like s*** when they've carefully explained that they want it as tight and short as possible. Look no further than a thorough lack of understanding of how it should look and should fit

While I enjoy shopping for some things on-line, my "training" all occurred when a decent salesman and tailor wouldn't let you leave the store in something awful. If faced with some of the stated preferences I've read here, a poor salesman might respond, "Can't help you, we don't dress clowns!" A good salesman would tell you the same thing, but differently, and you'd learn something and have a fighting chance of walking out with good looking clothing that fit and flattered you.

 

[EclecticSr.]

Still too many creases in the cerebrum. But I think a little lift in the hippocampus will solve it.

The temporal lobes would benefit from a bit of tucking as well.

 

[StephenRG]

Even B&M surgeries have their pitfalls, though:

 

[derum]

Generally it’s because people don’t know how to measure themselves correctly.

 

[mrkleen]

I have had great luck with Proper Cloth for shirts, but agree MTM gets more challenging as you get more complex than a shirt.

My first shirt was off and it was because my own measurements were off. I then mailed them my best fitting shirt, they measured it themselves and locked those into a template. And I have since ordered 25 shirts over 8 years and all have fit great and been made with less than a few mm of variance.

 

[paxonus]

I've been thinking of trying Luxire for a shirt. From looking at various fit photos I've seen posted elsewhere, the single biggest problem is shirts, as well as pants, being too tight. I don't think I have ever seen a photo of a Luxire product that is too loose. I doubt this is the fault of Luxire. More likely, the customer is expecting clothing that fits the current trend of being very close fitting. Also, using body measurements is fraught with peril. Much better to use measurements from a well-fitting shirt.