Men's Clothing Forums banner
1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have you ever wondered how someone who had written so little wrote so well? Read this:

https://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html

I always figured that Obama had used a ghostwriter or had some serious editorial intervention. This puts a name to it.

I should add that in my opinion the author makes a very persuasive philological, scientific argument.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
Very interesting case put forth by the article's author.

Any real proof of his theory would surely be a McCain campaign dream come true.

The idea that Ayers is yet another radical "affiliate" that Obama had little real knowledge of strains credulity, no doubt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,642 Posts
So law students don't have to write much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
So law students don't have to write much?
He probably wrote a lot... of sample legal briefs. I think the point is that it's unlikely that someone who has, apparently, written nothing but legal briefs and an occasional (one) review note, could turn out such a well written work of autobiography.

He very well may be a naturally gifted writer, honing his talents in advanced writing classes and going unpublished. However, in every writing class I've ever had, if you're even halfway decent, the instructor encourages you to try to get published somewhere. If he was that good, something there should be some sort of evidence, especially if he was the editor of the Harvard Law Review.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Have you ever wondered how someone who had written so little wrote so well? Read this:

https://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html

I always figured that Obama had used a ghostwriter or had some serious editorial intervention. This puts a name to it.

I should add that in my opinion the author makes a very persuasive philological, scientific argument.
The article seems like nothing more than wild and wishful specualtion. It is possible that Obama had heavy editing, some of our greatest writers...Thomas Wolf leaps to mind...had their work virtually re-created by their editors.

I have just gotten off the phone with two of Obama's professors from law school where he was editor of the law review. Both of those professors proclaim that Obama was a gifted and prolific writer in graduate school. I prefer to accept the judgement of people with first-hand knowledge.

This right-wing flailing to attach Obama and Ayers is indeed an amusing distraction in these dire times. Lord knows we all need some amusement right about now!

Buzz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,922 Posts
Under water grottos, caverns

Filled with apes

That eat figs.

Stepping on the figs

That the apes

Eat, they crunch.

The apes howl, bare

Their fangs, dance . . .


Buzz, did you ask these unnamed professors if Obama wrote more poetry in "graduate" school? Because this little tidbit really leaves you wanting more!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
the anti obama industry is just sprouting up, and will put many kids through expensive colleges over the next 8 years or so. they have found their bogeyman ayers, now everything obama has ever said/done will be miraculously connected to him. i would understand the author's surprise at dreams of my father's sophistication if obama were 18 when he wrote it- but for crissakes he was 33!.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
"Have you ever wondered how someone who had written so little wrote so well?"

Never. It's a very common occurrence. Often a writer writes one good book and that is quite enough. For example Harper Lee wrote To Kill A Mockingbird and nothing much else.

"I think the point is that it's unlikely that someone who has, apparently, written nothing but legal briefs and an occasional (one) review note, could turn out such a well written work of autobiography."

This assertion is unfortunately quite unfounded in facts. Many a lawyer or business executive, awash in briefs and memoranda, turns out great books. John Grisham, novelist, and Wallace Stevens, poet, come immediately to mind.
 

·
Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Joined
·
37,088 Posts
Folks: While I am not an Obama supporter, this is a ridiculous allegation considering the candidates proven intellect and professional background. Offering it for our consideration/discussion, insults the intelligence of each of us! There must be something better to occupy our time and attention.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
They're getting desperate, aren't they?

In case you haven't taken the time to go and read the full article, I will share with you what the author says is the single most persuasive piece of evidence:

If there is any one paragraph in Dreams that has convinced me of Ayers' involvement it is this one, in which Obama describes the Black Nationalist message:

"A steady attack on the white race... served as the ballast that could prevent the ideas of personal and communal responsibility from tipping into an ocean of despair."

As a writer, especially in the pre-Google era of Dreams, I would never have used a metaphor as specific as "ballast" unless I knew exactly what I was talking about. Seaman Ayers most surely did.


Yes, my friends, I kid you not. In amongst the questionable methodology, insignificant parallels (e.g., the uses of "ship", "storm", and "horizon" as metaphor), and rank speculation, the most telling piece of evidence for this guy is that a thirty-four year old graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School knew the meaning of the word "ballast".

Are you sure American Thinker isn't a new section of The Onion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Folks: While I am not an Obama supporter, this is a ridiculous allegation considering the candidates proven intellect and professional background. Offering it for our consideration/discussion, insults the intelligence of each of us! There must be something better to occupy our time and attention.
A very nice view, and reminder, of the big picture. Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
"Have you ever wondered how someone who had written so little wrote so well?"

Never. It's a very common occurrence. Often a writer writes one good book and that is quite enough. For example Harper Lee wrote To Kill A Mockingbird and nothing much else.

"I think the point is that it's unlikely that someone who has, apparently, written nothing but legal briefs and an occasional (one) review note, could turn out such a well written work of autobiography."

This assertion is unfortunately quite unfounded in facts. Many a lawyer or business executive, awash in briefs and memoranda, turns out great books. John Grisham, novelist, and Wallace Stevens, poet, come immediately to mind.
You beat me to the Harper Lee example.

As someone who has actually read both of the books mentioned in the article I can tell you that the writing styles are not similar. One of the keys to writing is setting a pace. The pace of the writing differs between the work of Bill Ayers and Obama. I would think this would be quite obvious to any person who reads a fair amount of books. It should be especially noticeable to those who write.

I found little in the article to be believable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
"Have you ever wondered how someone who had written so little wrote so well?"

Never. It's a very common occurrence. Often a writer writes one good book and that is quite enough. For example Harper Lee wrote To Kill A Mockingbird and nothing much else.
There was also Peggy Marsh, a decent newspaper reporter but no amazing literary genius, who spent ten years on a "great Southern novel" as a hobby. It ended up as the best selling book of all time after the Bible.

Unfortunately, there are some who think that Harper Lee got a lot of help from Truman Capote. At least Mrs. Marsh, writing under her maiden name of Margaret Mitchell, put aside enough of her working papers in a bank vault to protect her credibility should it ever be challenged.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
Any real proof of his theory would surely be a McCain campaign dream come true.
I'd be much more bothered if he wrote a work of fiction with a lot of help and claimed it as his own. Since it's an autobiography, he would be the best person to tell the story but not necessarily the person who can tell the story best.

I'm sure that his books are on the list that Sarah Palin requested be banned from the Wasilla library, since many of the other books on that alleged list hadn't been written yet either...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Unfortunately, there are some who think that Harper Lee got a lot of help from Truman Capote. At least Mrs. Marsh, writing under her maiden name of Margaret Mitchell, put aside enough of her working papers in a bank vault to protect her credibility should it ever be challenged.
Actually, the more interesting issue is to wonder just how much help Harper Lee gave Truman Capote in the research for and writing of In Cold Blood.

Buzz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
I'd be much more bothered if he wrote a work of fiction with a lot of help and claimed it as his own. Since it's an autobiography, he would be the best person to tell the story but not necessarily the person who can tell the story best.

I'm sure that his books are on the list that Sarah Palin requested be banned from the Wasilla library, since many of the other books on that alleged list hadn't been written yet either...
The vast majority of people couldn't care less if Obama wrote the book. The point of the article is not actually whether Obama wrote it, but of possible close Ayers connections to Obama.

The possibility of Ayers' authorship is pretty far fetched. But, so are Obama's claims to not really know (boy, how many times have we heard this?) who/what Ayers is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,114 Posts
I have no stake in this election. I hate McBama as much as I hate Obain. But it is still very interesting to watch the committed Obama supporters, here and elsewhere, fly into a frenzy when they hear stories like this one.

What makes this story interesting as a case in applied psychology is that the author of the American Thinker piece fully admits that the conclusion that Ayers wrote (or heavily edited) The Messiah's (auto)biography is speculative, but presents enough circumstantial evidence to invite such speculation. That set of circumstances -- a large enough dose of reality to raise a question but not enough to answer it conclusively -- invites people to project their political biases and reach emotional conclusions.

In my case, here's how I see it -- the use of the word "ballast" doesn't move me much. I am much more interested in the fact that Dreams of My Father scored the same rating on the Flesch Reading Ease Score as Ayers' own autobiography, Fugitive Days. That's a huge red flag.

Then I see that Fugitive Days averaged 23.13 words a sentence, Dreams of my Father averaged 23.36 words a sentence, but The Messiah's other book, Audacity of Hope averaged more than 29 words a sentence. Dreams of my Father is written at a 12th grade reading level, but Audacity of Hope is at a 9th grade reading level.

I didn't know the rocky history of The Messiah's publication of Dreams of My Father -- he got a fat advance, then produced nothing worth publishing, so he went to a second publisher, got a second (albeit less fat) advance, then produced a literary memoir that set Leftist hearts aflutter. Clearly something happened between the first miserable failure of a book and the subsequent success. And based on what I know about the publishing business, I think I have an idea what that something was.

Based on these facts alone, I believe Dreams of My Father was ghostwritten. I will believe that until proven otherwise.

Whether that ghostwriter is Ayers is an amusing thought, but needs more exploration.

I wonder if the media will pursue that question as vigorously as they explored Bristol Palin's pregnancy and reproductive history. Or Trig Palin's parentage.

If anyone's interested in finding out who Ayers is and why this matters, here's an interesting video on Bill Ayers. Stick with it to the end. It reminds us that Obama launched his political career in Ayers' living room.
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top