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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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That's an excellent question and one that has been considered in a lengthy (123 posts) Style Forum thread:

https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=66721&highlight=peal

The consensus seems to be either C&J, AS, or Church's, although no one is certain. In my post, #120 in the thread, I gave an analysis of these shoes, based on a pair I very recently purchased from BB. Here is part of that post:

Here's the entire set of written details on the inside of the shoes: First line: 23448; Second line: 107 9 1/2D 1711-17066; Third line: Made in England. Does this suggest their maker to anyone?

In posts #121 and #123 (the last post), Grimslade, a prominent member of SF (and also a member of this forum), opined that they are made by AS, based mainly on their insole details. Given the details written inside the shoes, I had conjectured (in Post #122) that they may be made by Church's. The thinking expressed in your earlier thread about the maker of Peal & Co. shoes in general seems to be that C&J are no longer producing shoes (or very many shoes) for BB, and, if true, that might suggest AS, as noted by Grimslade. I think that the jury is still out on the provenance of this shoe, and perhaps someone on this forum can provide additional information.

Aside from their maker, you'll see that I found the shoes to be of excellent quality and very nicely shaped. Their regular price was $498, and at their current price of $199, I consider them to be a very good deal.
 

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They look to me to be made by Alfred Sargent. And appear to be well made of decent materials. Fairly handsome. Are they the best looking English shoes I've ever seen? No. But they are better than just a fair value at $200. Examples by EG, G&G, and C&J would certianly be nicer, but they wouldn't be $200!
 

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They look to me to be made by Alfred Sargent. And appear to be well made of decent materials. Fairly handsome. Are they the best looking English shoes I've ever seen? No. But they are better than just a fair value at $200. Examples by EG, G&G, and C&J would certianly be nicer, but they wouldn't be $200!
That's interesting, Flanderian. What exactly about their appearance suggests AS?
 

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That's interesting, Flanderian. What exactly about their appearance suggests AS?
It's certinaly not the result of exhaustive analysis. :icon_smile_big:

It's only a general impression that their appearance is similar to other shoes branded Peal that have been attributed to AS since they don't look like C&J. For all I know they could have been made by Loake. Or clicked in India from donkey hide and sent to AS to be lasted and sewn. :rolleyes:

My impression of the OP's question is that he is as interested in opinions of their compartive value as he is their manufacture.
 

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They're made by Sargent.

The details provided in post #2 about the details written in the shoe are the giveaway. Sargent & Church's print last numbers in their shoes, to my knowledge (2 pairs of BG & 4 pairs of HG) C&J don't. The number 107 refers to the last, after checking the Sargent catalogue, 107 is indeed one of their lasts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Flanderian

Thanks, I guessed at AS due to their price.

I hope not some Indian outfit for AS !!!!

And I hope not Loakes

I appreciate your views on quality and value

Still not sure (if in doubt leave it out) I was always taught
 

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They're made by Sargent.

The details provided in post #2 about the details written in the shoe are the giveaway. Sargent & Church's print last numbers in their shoes, to my knowledge (2 pairs of BG & 4 pairs of HG) C&J don't. The number 107 refers to the last, after checking the Sargent catalogue, 107 is indeed one of their lasts.
It is, unfortunately, as I've just discovered, also the number of a Church's last. Actually, I'm leaning strongly towards AS, although we can't, I don't think, be absolutely certain that the "107" written inside the shoes refers to a last number. I tend to think it probably does, but.... :icon_smile_wink:

In response to Flanderian, I don't think BB has sunk as low as Loake...yet...but I can see it as a possibility in the future. At the same time, I don't think we can know much about likely specific makers from general appearance, as all of them have a number of quite-varied lasts.
 

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And I hope not Loakes

Still not sure (if in doubt leave it out) I was always taught
It interests me that being in the UK you feel this way about Loake. I have scant experience with them, as I haven't cared for their look. But there are many posters who are very fond of them, and they do look sturdy.

Long and painful experience :)icon_smile_wink:) as taught me not to buy any clothing simply because it looks like a steal. However, if it's exactly what I've been looking for, or it fills an important void in my wardrobe, sales are the time to jump on it! ;)
 

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It is, unfortunately, as I've just discovered, also the number of a Church's last. Actually, I'm leaning strongly towards AS, although we can't, I don't think, be absolutely certain that the "107" written inside the shoes refers to a last number. I tend to think it probably does, but.... :icon_smile_wink:

In response to Flanderian, I don't think BB has sunk as low as Loake...yet...but I can see it as a possibility in the future. At the same time, I don't think we can know much about likely specific makers from general appearance, as all of them have a number of quite-varied lasts.
Roger, as someone who's had experience actually selling these brands (Church's, C&J, Sargent, Loake et all) of shoes I can say with almost 100% certainty they're Sargent. You've only got to look at the shape and compare it to those found on Pediwear to see it's that same shape as a Sargent branded 107 shoe

To settle this conclusively you could email the details to Sargent directly(PM me for the correct email address). It seems a little bit too coincidental that the number that appears as on other styles on the Peal website that relates to a Sargent last, with the fact it's well known that AS make shoes for Peal.

99 times out of 100 the printed details, the font used, the layout of the writing is the giveaway as to who made the shoes. For instance, I was in Selfridges today looking at the Jeffrey West shoes, one look inside the shoes and immediately I know they're made by Cheaney, a quick phone call to the factory shop confirmed my assumption

In addition, to my knowledge Church's offer very little in rebranded styles, if any at all, perhaps Leather Man will be able to help with his contacts in the factory? As for Church's having a 107 last, you may well be correct, however there are no styles in the current Church's catalogue with a 107 last. There is however a 108 last.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It interests me that being in the UK you feel this way about Loake. I have scant experience with them, as I haven't cared for their look. But there are many posters who are very fond of them, and they do look sturdy.

Long and painful experience :)icon_smile_wink:) as taught me not to buy any clothing simply because it looks like a steal. However, if it's exactly what I've been looking for, or it fills an important void in my wardrobe, sales are the time to jump on it! ;)
I have had a few pairs of Loakes over the years and still wear the Loakes Kempton (suede with Dainte sole) it is OK! I have found that they do not bear up well to being resoled too often (I go to a very decent cobbler) Also I do not believe they are made in the UK!.

Maybe I am just being more selective with my shoes these days as I want them to feel good, last and look good.

Everyone to their own I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Roger, as someone who's had experience actually selling these brands (Church's, C&J, Sargent, Loake et all) of shoes I can say with almost 100% certainty they're Sargent. You've only got to look at the shape and compare it to those found on Pediwear to see it's that same shape as a Sargent branded 107 shoe

To settle this conclusively you could email the details to Sargent directly(PM me for the correct email address). It seems a little bit too coincidental that the number that appears as on other styles on the Peal website that relates to a Sargent last, with the fact it's well known that AS make shoes for Peal.

99 times out of 100 the printed details, the font used, the layout of the writing is the giveaway as to who made the shoes. For instance, I was in Selfridges today looking at the Jeffrey West shoes, one look inside the shoes and immediately I know they're made by Cheaney, a quick phone call to the factory shop confirmed my assumption

In addition, to my knowledge Church's offer very little in rebranded styles, if any at all, perhaps Leather Man will be able to help with his contacts in the factory? As for Church's having a 107 last, you may well be correct, however there are no styles in the current Church's catalogue with a 107 last. There is however a 108 last.
I guess the Jeffrey West shoes at Marks & Spencer are not made by Cheaney ! they are only £60 a pair !
 

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Roger, as someone who's had experience actually selling these brands (Church's, C&J, Sargent, Loake et all) of shoes I can say with almost 100% certainty they're Sargent. You've only got to look at the shape and compare it to those found on Pediwear to see it's that same shape as a Sargent branded 107 shoe

To settle this conclusively you could email the details to Sargent directly(PM me for the correct email address). It seems a little bit too coincidental that the number that appears as on other styles on the Peal website that relates to a Sargent last, with the fact it's well known that AS make shoes for Peal.

99 times out of 100 the printed details, the font used, the layout of the writing is the giveaway as to who made the shoes. For instance, I was in Selfridges today looking at the Jeffrey West shoes, one look inside the shoes and immediately I know they're made by Cheaney, a quick phone call to the factory shop confirmed my assumption

In addition, to my knowledge Church's offer very little in rebranded styles, if any at all, perhaps Leather Man will be able to help with his contacts in the factory? As for Church's having a 107 last, you may well be correct, however there are no styles in the current Church's catalogue with a 107 last. There is however a 108 last.
I buy it! Certainly selling these brands does make you expert in this kind of identification. Two other points: (a) there's a pair of Church's shoes on the 107 last on eBay right now from Sausages234, and (b) as someone who has seen lots of C&Js and ASs over the years, how would you compare the overall quality of C&J regular line ("benchgrade", not the Handgrades) and AS models at the same price point as C&J regular line?
 

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To throw in my two cents: I believe that the shoes in the Original OP's post are AS. I have never owned AS or Churches but I have looked through many of there catalogs and on the web. They definitely don't look like a Church's last and not a C&J. I have seen plenty of AS and that albeit not very scientific is my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Groover - I have the Jeffery West Croaker in Tan, bought them about 6 years ago, hardly ever wore them as they are a little tight at the sides, I put shoe trees in them last week to see if this will help. However I never knew Cheaney made them, they are certainly well made, shame they are a little tight (when I bought them, I thought the leather would stretch !.

Cheers
 

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Roger, as someone who's had experience actually selling these brands (Church's, C&J, Sargent, Loake et all) of shoes I can say with almost 100% certainty they're Sargent. You've only got to look at the shape and compare it to those found on Pediwear to see it's that same shape as a Sargent branded 107 shoe

To settle this conclusively you could email the details to Sargent directly(PM me for the correct email address). It seems a little bit too coincidental that the number that appears as on other styles on the Peal website that relates to a Sargent last, with the fact it's well known that AS make shoes for Peal.

99 times out of 100 the printed details, the font used, the layout of the writing is the giveaway as to who made the shoes. For instance, I was in Selfridges today looking at the Jeffrey West shoes, one look inside the shoes and immediately I know they're made by Cheaney, a quick phone call to the factory shop confirmed my assumption

In addition, to my knowledge Church's offer very little in rebranded styles, if any at all, perhaps Leather Man will be able to help with his contacts in the factory? As for Church's having a 107 last, you may well be correct, however there are no styles in the current Church's catalogue with a 107 last. There is however a 108 last.
I have a feeling Church's do have a 107 last but you don't see it often. One give-away for Church's is that they hand-write the shoe's details on the inside whereas C&J and most others machine print the details. The shape of the shoe above could be Church's but I don't think it is - my hunch is more with Alfred Sargent as others have said. If I get the chance I'll ask if Church's make for other people - of course until recently they did do Jil Sander's shoes but otherwise I think you are right Groover, Church's make very little for other people.
 

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Groover - I have the Jeffery West Croaker in Tan, bought them about 6 years ago, hardly ever wore them as they are a little tight at the sides, I put shoe trees in them last week to see if this will help. However I never knew Cheaney made them, they are certainly well made, shame they are a little tight (when I bought them, I thought the leather would stretch !.

Cheers
Cheaney did indeed make them! I have heard however that Jeffrey West are no longer using Cheaney - can anyone verify this?

The M&S Jeffrey West are absolutely not made by Cheaney!!
 

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I have had a few pairs of Loakes over the years and still wear the Loakes Kempton (suede with Dainte sole) it is OK! I have found that they do not bear up well to being resoled too often (I go to a very decent cobbler) Also I do not believe they are made in the UK!
Thanks for your feeback, little is better than personal experience. Surprised Loake isn't UK manufacture. Wonder where they originate?
 
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