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Just got a Coppley mtm last month, does the shoulder look right ?
weird experience with Coppley MTM
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I would expect the horizontal transition from my shoulder to my vertical arms to be more smooth? Or should I?
Oh, pictures are not great but it looks like you may have a bit of a divot in the upper sleeve. That's not ideal. If you do a thread search you can find a pretty good discussion of the root causes - my vague recollection is that it is more of a problem with the size of the armscye than one with the size of the shoulders. Honestly, I don't remember exactly, but if that is what is bothering you can certainly ask the tailor about it.
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@rockstar57 There are many reasons to cause divots at the sleeve head, and that is related to how the armhole is cut with respect to your shoulder. In this case, the shoulder width is a bit wide and you also move your arms laterally outward (not resting on your hips). Thus it creates a little divot.
It seems that the armhole is large enough so if you rest your arms against your hip (just relax, not lifting arm a bit to pose), that divot should disappear. However, if even resting in relax and that divot is still there, you need to communicate that with the tailor about it.
That being said, I cannot help but notice that the button stance is quite high, and it also seems the jacket length is a bit short for you. Did you check with the person who measure you about the sizing and to what degree that you can change those parameters?
It seems that the armhole is large enough so if you rest your arms against your hip (just relax, not lifting arm a bit to pose), that divot should disappear. However, if even resting in relax and that divot is still there, you need to communicate that with the tailor about it.
That being said, I cannot help but notice that the button stance is quite high, and it also seems the jacket length is a bit short for you. Did you check with the person who measure you about the sizing and to what degree that you can change those parameters?
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Thanks a lot. I think the button stance is fine cause I put my phone on a shelf while shooting this, so that's probably it looks a bit high.
About my suit, they actually sort of messed up the measurement in the beginning. Initially the tailor and I settled on Samuelsohn MTM but since I couldn't find the right fabric we decided to switch to Coppley. Without doing another round of measurement, the initial end product was horribly boxy. Then the Italian tailor made huge efforts to improve, but this seems to be one last problem.
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It may be the issue since you have to change the maker, but the playing ground is shifted without adjustment. The model that you based from Samuelsohn is not there for Coppley, and that could be the problem.
Unfortunately, the shoulder is not an easy area to alter, and it seems that this shoulder width may work with your body to give you a good proportion. Check with the tailor to confirm this.
Sounds like the process was less than ideal.
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Yeah, it's definitely not easy, but I'm pretty sure he is capable of doing that.
The picture below is what I expected the shoulder to be from Coppley MTM, that's not too much to ask, right? (Pics below are both Coppley suits, I think they both look better than mine, especially my right shoulder)
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Unfortunately yeah. I guess I'll have to pay him another visit.
JeffreyD (an occasional poster here and on other forums) has a blog on ripping apart suits, how to make buttonholes, and a number of other detail items that sartorialists find interesting. He has a post that is about 10 years old where he kind of outlines the root causes of the kind of divot you are experiencing. It isn't that the shoulders are too wide, but more an issue of the size of the armscye and the sleeve and how they interact. Factors such as too tight a chest can pull on the armscye which then pulls on the sleeve, etc... Not being a tailor, it remains a bit elusive to me as well as the potential fixes. Suffice to say removing the sleeves and redoing them may be the fix.
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In this picture that you attached, you can observe that the shoulder width of the jacket is just a bit wider than the body's shoulder width. Observe the model's right shoulder:
Having said that, I think this shoulder width works for your built. If you observe the size of head of the models w.r.t. shoulder width of the jacket and compare that with your own, you can see they are not that different. If you had a jacket that the shoulder seams lies to your acromion process, it could make your head looks larger than it is and narrower shoulder width. Making your over silhouette more like an A rather than a V shape. That is not what we want when wearing a suit, right?
And if the curve under his right shoulder is his flesh, the shoulder seam either lies just right or a bit outward of his acromion process. In your case, I would imagine it is just over that point, but correct me if I am wrong.![]()
Having said that, I think this shoulder width works for your built. If you observe the size of head of the models w.r.t. shoulder width of the jacket and compare that with your own, you can see they are not that different. If you had a jacket that the shoulder seams lies to your acromion process, it could make your head looks larger than it is and narrower shoulder width. Making your over silhouette more like an A rather than a V shape. That is not what we want when wearing a suit, right?
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Good point.
I sent the pics to my tailor and he said he could probably improve it, but may not be able to completely correct it, I assume that's a fair evaluation?
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Yes, that is fair. There is limitation of what can be done on the shoulder of a finished garment, and personally I don't think it is worthwhile. Do what works for your built.
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Hmm, I see.
You think about doing MTM at Spier & Mackay?
I'd personally give it a try if I lived in TO
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On second thought, the shoulder sort of looks acceptable to me now, do you feel the same way?
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I think so. I think if you go narrower shoulder the jacket will look bottom heavy, which is not the look that you want. With a bit of extra width it should look ok.
Now, I am still under the impression that divot is formed because your lift your arms side way a bit during the picture taking. If you let your arms rest against your body, like dropping them without exerting any forces (no slouch either), will the divot go away? If so, there is nothing to worry about. Many Saville Row tailors wear their jacket like that. A bit of extended and strong shoulder and divots formed when moving arms side way. Again, you need to consider your overall look, not just shoulder part only.
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Bierly makes some good points here and how about that SearchingBestFit? And we don't even pay him. Thank them both. Then read the following.
Why are we talking about divots? I don't see any and you didn't mention any in your starting post. Not to say you don't have then, but you didn't give me a side shot. So I dunno.
Most people, perhaps you too, don't know that there is padding, complicated, built-up padding, in the sleeve itself, not just at the shoulder. It's in the sleeve head, and the amount and kind varies depending on the sort of look you want. Adjusting, adding, subtracting, whatever in the sleeve itself can alter the fall of the sleeve and often erase divots, though I find them of little concern unless your job requires you to stand ram rod straight for hours on end without blinking. Short of that a divot strikes as just a looseness of cloth at a specific point to allow greater freedom of movement, like the excess cloth in the jacket itself at the rear of each shoulder. Some abhor that also. Maybe they should spray their clothes on.
Your suit has square shoulders. Which is not the same as boxy. Boxy is where they don't have much of a slant, yours do. But your transition from shoulder to sleeve is abrupt and square and this is what I thought you were talking about when you began this. It is not a natural shoulder. Did you want one? If so, you haven't got it.
Why are we talking about divots? I don't see any and you didn't mention any in your starting post. Not to say you don't have then, but you didn't give me a side shot. So I dunno.
Most people, perhaps you too, don't know that there is padding, complicated, built-up padding, in the sleeve itself, not just at the shoulder. It's in the sleeve head, and the amount and kind varies depending on the sort of look you want. Adjusting, adding, subtracting, whatever in the sleeve itself can alter the fall of the sleeve and often erase divots, though I find them of little concern unless your job requires you to stand ram rod straight for hours on end without blinking. Short of that a divot strikes as just a looseness of cloth at a specific point to allow greater freedom of movement, like the excess cloth in the jacket itself at the rear of each shoulder. Some abhor that also. Maybe they should spray their clothes on.
Your suit has square shoulders. Which is not the same as boxy. Boxy is where they don't have much of a slant, yours do. But your transition from shoulder to sleeve is abrupt and square and this is what I thought you were talking about when you began this. It is not a natural shoulder. Did you want one? If so, you haven't got it.
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