[almosthandsome]

Having a devil of a time dating this particular label or even finding another example of it. The unique thing being the graphic of the weaver and machine. The jacket's details say late 50s-early 60s. No other tags. Any insight? Thank you!

 

[momsdoc]

The Harris Tweed Orb became the official copyright by the Harris Tweed Associaiton in 1909 becoming law with an act of Parliment in 1993 with a change in name to the Harris Tweed Authority. All cloth certified as Harris Tweed since 1910 has the orb stamped on the material and has a label containing the orb.

Anything else may indeeed be handwoven in the Outer Hebrides, or in the slums of Mumbai, or from any wool at all by any means, as it is not authentic certified Harris Tweed. Therefore without the orb let the buyer beware.

All orb certified Harris Tweed must be produced from wool from Scotland (only from the Outer Hebrides prior to 1934), since 1934 the Wool and yarn can be produced on the mainland of Scotland from Scottish wool, but must be transported to and hand woven in the homes of said Outer Hebrides residents. No power looms allowed.

Estimates are that 50% of Harris Tweed wool and yarn originates from the mainland since 1934 to keep up with demand and prevent prices from becoming uncompetatively high, destroying the industry. And all those sheep (or is it their wool? Must be virgins). But it is all hand loomed at home in the Outer Hebrides.

Now, that does not mean it is not a fine, quality tweed. It just cannot be Harris Tweed Authority certified Harris Tweed complying with the legal requirements for its production without receiving the Orb, which is now 108 years old.

 

[London380sl]

Found this interesting piece of information off another site:

We actually need to seperate out that Harris tweed label from that particular resource page as it belongs to a different brand. It is a common misconception that the two are variants of the same label, they are not. Your label can be dated due a rather infamous dispute between The Harris Tweed Association Ltd (of the Orb mark) and The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd (of the shield mark). The latter was a collective of three mainland mills (trademarked in 1958) who were selling tweed cloth as Harris Tweed but that was not authorised nor stamped with the orb mark. Some of them justified this use of the Harris Tweed name by putting the yarn onto beams, shipping them to one of a the hebrides islands where it was turned into tweed on a loom and then having it shipped back to the mainland, finished off and marketed as Harris Tweed. Some also went to the length of spraying the fabric with a 'Harris Tweed Aroma' (said to immitate peat fire smoke) however this was misguided as the 'aroma' of Harris Tweed is actually due to the crofter's urine used to shrink the tweed after weaving.
The Harris Tweed Association began legal procedings against them in 1962 in English courts, while The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd began legal procedings in 1961 in the Scottish courts went on to become the longest court case in Scottish legal history, ending in 1964 when it was ruled that all parts of the manufacturing process must be completed in the Outer Hebrides for it to be called Harris Tweed.

As such, all shield Harris Tweed labels will date between 1958-1964.

Looks like you may have a Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd jacket!

The web site is here:
https://forums.vintagefashionguild.org/threads/dating-a-harris-tweed-label.54932/

 

[Shaver]

Psst! Wanna buy an' 'arris, guvnor, nah questions arsked?

 

[Fading Fast]

Found this interesting piece of information off another site:

We actually need to seperate out that Harris tweed label from that particular resource page as it belongs to a different brand. It is a common misconception that the two are variants of the same label, they are not. Your label can be dated due a rather infamous dispute between The Harris Tweed Association Ltd (of the Orb mark) and The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd (of the shield mark). The latter was a collective of three mainland mills (trademarked in 1958) who were selling tweed cloth as Harris Tweed but that was not authorised nor stamped with the orb mark. Some of them justified this use of the Harris Tweed name by putting the yarn onto beams, shipping them to one of a the hebrides islands where it was turned into tweed on a loom and then having it shipped back to the mainland, finished off and marketed as Harris Tweed. Some also went to the length of spraying the fabric with a 'Harris Tweed Aroma' (said to immitate peat fire smoke) however this was misguided as the 'aroma' of Harris Tweed is actually due to the crofter's urine used to shrink the tweed after weaving.
The Harris Tweed Association began legal procedings against them in 1962 in English courts, while The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd began legal procedings in 1961 in the Scottish courts went on to become the longest court case in Scottish legal history, ending in 1964 when it was ruled that all parts of the manufacturing process must be completed in the Outer Hebrides for it to be called Harris Tweed.

As such, all shield Harris Tweed labels will date between 1958-1964.

Looks like you may have a Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd jacket!

The web site is here:
https://forums.vintagefashionguild.org/threads/dating-a-harris-tweed-label.54932/

That is great information - spot on to the OP, detailed and interesting. I will admit to being a bit worried about how much I find this stuff interesting - but it beats drugs as a hobby.

That said, what might be the most amazing thing is that a three year court case about a defining industry's trademark going on for all of three years is a record in the Scottish Court system. All I can say is kudos to Scottish jurisprudence.

My girlfriend's parents were sued by a neighbor over the ownership of ten feet of adjacent property. The case went on for eight years (no exaggeration as I helped them with some details of it) until it was decided 100% in their favor (the judge even noted that it was close to being frivolous). Hence, a small dispute - basically, a frivolous one - dragged on for eight years, yet three years is a record for a major industry trademark case in Scotland. I tip my hat to the Scotts.

 

[London380sl]

As a follow-up to my previous post I found this on Wikipedia:

The Independent Harris Tweed Producers Ltd.[edit]
In 1958 three mainland mills interests formed a group called the 'Independent Harris Tweed Producers Ltd', they were: Argyll-shire Weaver's of Oban, A.&J. McNaughton of Pitlochry' and Scottish Crofters Weavers of Aberdeen or Leith.

McNaughton's of Pitlochry was a traditional supplier of mainland yarn to Lewis small producers. Scottish Crofters Weavers Ltd. was associated with Robert Laidlaw Ltd Wool Mills of Leith who was also a traditional supplier of mainland yarn to Lewis small producers.

Each of these mills were marketing and selling cloth marked as Harris Tweed but that had not been produced authentically or stamped with the Orb Mark. As such they found themselves excluded from the lucrative American market where the Orb Mark had recently been registered.

Also in 1958 the Independent Harris Tweed Producers Ltd announced a group emblem which was in fact a heraldic shield registered by Argyll-shire Weavers earlier. This shield was used as a trade mark by the Independent Producers.

By 1958 there were therefore two kinds of Harris Tweed on the market and two associations promoting them: the Orb Harris Tweed promoted by the Harris Tweed Association Ltd. and the Shield Harris Tweed promoted by the Independent Harris Tweed Producers.

In 1962 court proceedings were initiated by the Harris Tweed Association against the Shield producers, in an English Court while in February 1961 court proceedings were initiated by the Shield group in the High Court of Edinburgh, Scotland.

The Lord Hunter Harris Tweed case in Edinburgh High Court was between Argyll-shire Weavers and others v A. Macaulay (Tweeds) Ltd. and others.

It was the longest court case in Scottish legal history[24] and Lord Hunter finally found against the Shield group. Lord Hunter's opinion was that, a tweed to be legitimately described and marketed as Harris Tweed had at least to conform to the definition approved by the Board of Trade in relation to Certification Trade Mark No 319214 which is the Orb Trade Mark.[25]

The final decision re-enforced the 1934 definition that tied all production processes only to the Outer Hebrides islands and this finally removed the threat of mainland competition.

Getting back to the OP original question it's likely his jacket was produced sometime between 1958-1964 by the Scottish Crofters Weavers of Aberdeen as their label shows a man working on a loom.

 

[127.72 MHz]

^^ Outstanding post(s) London!
Concise and detailed information. I too find this interesting.
Best regards,

 

[Oldsarge]

Y'gotta love scholarship!

 

[Mr. B. Scott Robinson]

"Crofters Urine"? Would this be single malt or a blended scotch?

Cheers,

BSR

 

[almosthandsome]

Thank you all for the fantastic info. Cheers!

 

[Hebrew Barrister]

Found this interesting piece of information off another site:

We actually need to seperate out that Harris tweed label from that particular resource page as it belongs to a different brand. It is a common misconception that the two are variants of the same label, they are not. Your label can be dated due a rather infamous dispute between The Harris Tweed Association Ltd (of the Orb mark) and The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd (of the shield mark). The latter was a collective of three mainland mills (trademarked in 1958) who were selling tweed cloth as Harris Tweed but that was not authorised nor stamped with the orb mark. Some of them justified this use of the Harris Tweed name by putting the yarn onto beams, shipping them to one of a the hebrides islands where it was turned into tweed on a loom and then having it shipped back to the mainland, finished off and marketed as Harris Tweed. Some also went to the length of spraying the fabric with a 'Harris Tweed Aroma' (said to immitate peat fire smoke) however this was misguided as the 'aroma' of Harris Tweed is actually due to the crofter's urine used to shrink the tweed after weaving.
The Harris Tweed Association began legal procedings against them in 1962 in English courts, while The Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd began legal procedings in 1961 in the Scottish courts went on to become the longest court case in Scottish legal history, ending in 1964 when it was ruled that all parts of the manufacturing process must be completed in the Outer Hebrides for it to be called Harris Tweed.

As such, all shield Harris Tweed labels will date between 1958-1964.

Looks like you may have a Independant Harris Tweed Producers Ltd jacket!

The web site is here:
https://forums.vintagefashionguild.org/threads/dating-a-harris-tweed-label.54932/

Wait.

"Some also went to the length of spraying the fabric with a 'Harris Tweed Aroma' (said to immitate peat fire smoke) however this was misguided as the 'aroma' of Harris Tweed is actually due to the crofter's urine used to shrink the tweed after weaving."

What? Is this still done?

 

[Gurdon]

"Crofters Urine"? Would this be single malt or a blended scotch?

Cheers,

BSR

Scottish folk group.