[The Irishman]

Gents,

I do not own a pair of penny loafers at the moment.

There are threads aplenty on them but - at least as far as I could find - the discussion is generally more US-centric.

For those of us in the UK and Ireland, can anyone advise me on what are some good options for a pair?

I am looking for something in brown or chestnut leather, and in a fairly traditional style. Perhaps a single leather sole. Down the road I would go for suede for a second pair. No tassels or straps.

At the moment I'm considering the Crockett & Jones Boston and Tricker's James.

C&J Boston:-
https://www.crockettandjones.com/boston-darkbrown-country-calf/

Tricker's James:-
https://www.trickers.com/uk/james-penny-loafer-1620.html

The C&J and Tricker's are at least 400 pounds, factoring in shipping, which is fine but I wanted to ask whether anyone can advise me whether they're worth the money when it comes to loafers... As Sanders offer a fully lined goodyear welted loafer for around the 220 pound mark.

Sanders Aldwych:-
https://www.pediwear.co.uk/sanders/products/1198.php

There are possibly others at that lower price point too. Cheaney seem to be around the 350 pound price point.

'Worth the money' is always going to be a subjective thing, and I wouldn't contemplate spending the money if I didn't have it to spend in the first place... But what I am really asking is whether there is enough construction and detailing going on with a pair of loafers in the first place to justify the spend. Will I know the difference between the C&J on my feet versus the Sanders, aside from the fact that I love the grain look of the C&J?

Can anyone offer some feedback or thoughts?

Size-wise I tend to be a 9.5 in dress shoes and was planning on ordering that. I figure I'll be a 9.5 or a 10 at worst.

 

[TheDlABlO]

'Worth the money' is always going to be a subjective thing, and I wouldn't contemplate spending the money if I didn't have it to spend in the first place... But what I am really asking is whether there is enough construction and detailing going on with a pair of loafers in the first place to justify the spend. Will I know the difference between the C&J on my feet versus the Sanders, aside from the fact that I love the grain look of the C&J?

Can anyone offer some feedback or thoughts?

Size-wise I tend to be a 9.5 in dress shoes and was planning on ordering that. I figure I'll be a 9.5 or a 10 at worst.

At the entry point in the UK, I only own a Loake 1880. I have no experience with Barker or Sanders.

Here is my honest opinion. I do not believe there are any meaningful differences in construction between UK made Barkers, Crockett, Trickers, or EG for that matter. Picking a last that looks good and fits you well is probably #1. All UK made GY Welt shoes use frowned on techniques like:

• Gemming / canvas ribbing
• Machine welting on the GY machine
• Celastic stiffeners
• *some* but not all manufacturers use synthetic or leatherboard in thier heel stacks

What I think you get as you move up the shoe food chain:

• Higher quality leather uppers [this is really important]
  
• Higher quality control / consistency of manufacture. Note this is not 'better' production standards per se, but more likely to be made to spec.
• Access to lasts specific to that manufacturer
• Higher chance of the heel stack being only leather

 

[captain grimes]

This is the one for you, Paddy https://www.shipton.com/wilton-mens-brown-calf-loafer.html - made by C&J for Shipton & Heneage.

 

[fishertw]

Ive been pleased with Cheaney

 

[culverwood]

Another possibility is Foster and Son's Monet.
... available with oak bark tanned leather or Dainite sole. As an alternative to our high quality plain calf, the pebble grain finish gives this shoe a unique personality.
Model: 1360
Price: £455 including VAT

But what I am really asking is whether there is enough construction and detailing going on with a pair of loafers in the first place to justify the spend.

I would say that the simpler in style a shoe is the more difficult it is to do really well and that with a loafer fit is the prime consideration. A visit to the many shoe shops on Jermyn St would be my suggestion, unless there is a similar street in Dublin.

 

[The Irishman]

At the entry point in the UK, I only own a Loake 1880. I have no experience with Barker or Sanders.

Here is my honest opinion. I do not believe there are any meaningful differences in construction between UK made Barkers, Crockett, Trickers, or EG for that matter. Picking a last that looks good and fits you well is probably #1. All UK made GY Welt shoes use frowned on techniques like:

• Gemming / canvas ribbing
• Machine welting on the GY machine
• Celastic stiffeners
• *some* but not all manufacturers use synthetic or leatherboard in thier heel stacks

What I think you get as you move up the shoe food chain:

• Higher quality leather uppers [this is really important]
  
• Higher quality control / consistency of manufacture. Note this is not 'better' production standards per se, but more likely to be made to spec.
• Access to lasts specific to that manufacturer
• Higher chance of the heel stack being only leather

Thank you for your reply!

The Loake 1880 range was my entry into UK made shoes and I still have a few pairs knocking around.

I'm not sure I really agree that they are as well constructed as what I have from Tricker's or Crockett & Jones, however., irrespective of the same techniques being used. I think there is an objective difference in quality that is more than just the latter companies letting less lemons through to the end user.

...At least, that would be my experience having owned a variety and been able to compare them.

But I did ask the question regarding the difference when it comes to loafers specifically because I'm prepared to believe that the differences are more apparent when it comes to shoes and boots that are heavier and more complex in their construction.

 

[The Irishman]

I don't like the Trickers at all but if you like them, order from Pediwear or Herring as Trickers themselves engage in some pretty drastic price discrimination - £375 (€428) suddenly becomes €495 as soon as you change the region to EU.

I don't own any C&J but I have five pairs of Sanders and really like them. Nice lasts, comfortable fittings and they have all worn very well. The Aldywch pictured above are on the MATT last which I found to run about a half-size small. Pity you're not a 10 or I'd have sent you a pair of seconds I bought recently on eBay that are too small for me.

It might be an idea to look at the Spanish and Portuguese makers like Carlos Santos, Carmina or Skoaktiebolaget's Lof & Tung. Santos in particular are excellent value and are currently 30% off at A Fine Pair of Shoes this month.

Great point concerning the price differential.

I prefer to deal with Pediwear or Shoe Healer because of the customer service, personally.

But it must be said that there is good value to be had on Herring frequently!

I did consider looking at Spanish makers also, but I omitted them from discussion as the post would have turned into a very long list. I have a pair of Carmina shoes that I really like and I think they are probably very good at this kind of thing.

I'll check out Santos, thanks.

 

[The Irishman]

I would say that the simpler in style a shoe is the more difficult it is to do really well and that with a loafer fit is the prime consideration. A visit to the many shoe shops on Jermyn St would be my suggestion, unless there is a similar street in Dublin.

Yes, I suspect that would be ideal.

Unfortunately I'm not planning to be back in London until early September.

Here in Dublin there are a few stockists of Crockett & Jones, Barker, Loake, Church's but on the whole the tendency is towards stocking very low end shoes. I may have a hunt around in any case just to try some loafers on my feet and get a sense of sizing across various brands.

 

[Flanderian]

I can offer some limited information on two of those you are considering. While I don't have Sanders' Aldywch, I have four pair of Sanders and have found all of them to be extremely well made and carefully finished of solid materials. They're my preferred make for value priced English shoes. If they save money anywhere, their lower range of shoes may not have as fine quality hides as their top range, or those of more costly makes such as C&J. That's not to say they're poor, or don't look great, but they may not be the most costly available.

I just purchased a pair of Cheaney Howard R penny loafers. Cheaney is now making a high quality product of excellent materials. While not inexpensive, I believe they offer good value for the quality. The workmanship and materials are all first rate. I purchased this because I specifically wanted the mahogany grained leather which is used on one version, but which may be too light for your wishes. I did notice that Herring also sells the same model in burgundy calf, if that's a consideration. However a disqualifier for you may be that it comes with a Dainite sole, but that was another feature I specifically sought. The Howard R is illustrated below.

When considering shoes of this level of quality there is an aspect of diminishing returns in terms of value as you go up the price ladder. Are C&J shoes superb? Few would argue they're not. Do small differences in materials or styling justify the price differences between those, or Trickers, and others? That's very much dependent upon how much the purchaser values those differences.

 

[The Irishman]

I actually really like that mahogany, and the grain look of those, Flanderian. Dainite wouldn't overly bother me either, as to me they're a casual style anyway, I'm not bothered by it.

 

[Flanderian]

I actually really like that mahogany, and the grain look of those, Flanderian. Dainite wouldn't overly bother me either, as to me they're a casual style anyway, I'm not bothered by it.

Glad it could be of interest. Cheaney has it's own website, but I purchased from Herring. They have very quick customer service.

FWIW, the Dainite sole on the loafer is indistinguishable from a leather sole, unless you are looking for it and know what to look for. And I was interested to note that the Dainite sole that Cheaney uses on the loafer is significantly thinner than the one they used on my chukka, increasing its similarity of appearance to leather. I had read before purchasing that Dainite might be stiff. But I haven't found them any stiffer than a leather sole in Cheaney's use, and perhaps even less so.

 

[Flanderian]

The Howard R is a seriously good looking loafer. I always thought that pebble-grain was a little too 'autumnal' looking for a loafer (which to me are a summer shoe) but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to get a pair myself.

Re the Dainite soles - I believe that in this particular case they are made with the dainite stitched directly onto the welt rather than onto a leather midsole as you'd normally expect. Gives a thinner, more elegant appearance from the side profile at the expense (in my opinion) of some comfort.

That may be, though I've noticed no reduction in comfort compared to my Jackie III's. But the actual rubber sole itself is thinner also, I examined them side by side. Dainite must offer different thicknesses.

 

[eagle2250]

I can offer some limited information on two of those you are considering. While I don't have Sanders' Aldywch, I have four pair of Sanders and have found all of them to be extremely well made and carefully finished of solid materials. They're my preferred make for value priced English shoes. If they save money anywhere, their lower range of shoes may not have as fine quality hides as their top range, or those of more costly makes such as C&J. That's not to say they're poor, or don't look great, but they may not be the most costly available.

I just purchased a pair of Cheaney Howard R penny loafers. Cheaney is now making a high quality product of excellent materials. While not inexpensive, I believe they offer good value for the quality. The workmanship and materials are all first rate. I purchased this because I specifically wanted the mahogany grained leather which is used on one version, but which may be too light for your wishes. I did notice that Herring also sells the same model in burgundy calf, if that's a consideration. However a disqualifier for you may be that it comes with a Dainite sole, but that was another feature I specifically sought. The Howard R is illustrated below.

When considering shoes of this level of quality there is an aspect of diminishing returns in terms of value as you go up the price ladder. Are C&J shoes superb? Few would argue they're not. Do small differences in materials or styling justify the price differences between those, or Trickers, and others? That's very much dependent upon how much the purchaser values those differences.

My friend, I get the urge to add to my ever burgeoning shoe/boot collection every time you post pictures of those beauties. There is going to come a day when you catch me in one of my weaker moments and I do something that will persuade Mrs Eagle to sit me down again and have a serious discussion with me about self-restraint! LOL.

 

[Flanderian]

My friend, I get the urge to add to my ever burgeoning shoe/boot collection every time you post pictures of those beauties. There is going to come a day when you catch me in one of my weaker moments and I do something that will persuade Mrs Eagle to sit me down again and have a serious discussion with me about self-restraint! LOL.

Just tell her your shoes had babies! :beer:

 

[The Irishman]

Tricker's James arrived in burnished chestnut from Pediwear.

Pleased with these, the chestnut is less common than the very dark espresso which is the usual brown calf leather you see these in.

Fit is acceptable in 9.5. I think 9 would have been too tight but can't be certain. 10 would have been absurd. I would say these are roomier than a similar loafer by the likes of Church's but less voluminous than a few Barker offerings I tried in store.

Would I like them a tiny more fitted? Yes, but I am fairly sure a 9 would be that 'they better stretch, or I will never wear them' territory. It's quite possible that if I got the nines and worked at it I could break them in, but to be honest I wouldn't be certain. The sides and front of the foot are fine on these, it's just that I have a bit of heel slippage when I wear them barefoot (Not so much with socks). Will I wear them? Yes, so I'll keep them.

 

[The Irishman]

These also arrived - from the Tricker's outlet:-

Adam in dark brown castorino suede.

They're on Tricker's (new?) flexi sole, and have a blue lining and sole. They're not visible when worn, and the sole won't remain blue for long, so that didn't put me off ordering. The fact that these were 205 GBP compared to the usual 375 GBP was a factor...

The James is on the 2298 last, the Adam is on the 11659. The Adam feels a little more fitted, which I like.

The flexi sole and suede contribute to a very lightweight loafer in comparison with James, which feels like it is constructed with the usual Tricker's robustness. The flexi sole undoubtedly contributes.

 

[Flanderian]

Tricker's James arrived in burnished chestnut from Pediwear.

Pleased with these, the chestnut is less common than the very dark espresso which is the usual brown calf leather you see these in.

Fit is acceptable in 9.5. I think 9 would have been too tight but can't be certain. 10 would have been absurd. I would say these are roomier than a similar loafer by the likes of Church's but less voluminous than a few Barker offerings I tried in store.

Would I like them a tiny more fitted? Yes, but I am fairly sure a 9 would be that 'they better stretch, or I will never wear them' territory. It's quite possible that if I got the nines and worked at it I could break them in, but to be honest I wouldn't be certain. The sides and front of the foot are fine on these, it's just that I have a bit of heel slippage when I wear them barefoot (Not so much with socks). Will I wear them? Yes, so I'll keep them.

These also arrived - from the Tricker's outlet:-

Adam in dark brown castorino suede.

They're on Tricker's (new?) flexi sole, and have a blue lining and sole. They're not visible when worn, and the sole won't remain blue for long, so that didn't put me off ordering. The fact that these were 205 GBP compared to the usual 375 GBP was a factor...

The James is on the 2298 last, the Adam is on the 11659. The Adam feels a little more fitted, which I like.

The flexi sole and suede contribute to a very lightweight loafer in comparison with James, which feels like it is constructed with the usual Tricker's robustness. The flexi sole undoubtedly contributes.

Awfully nice shoes!

 

[Watchman]

Gents,

I do not own a pair of penny loafers at the moment.

There are threads aplenty on them but - at least as far as I could find - the discussion is generally more US-centric.

For those of us in the UK and Ireland, can anyone advise me on what are some good options for a pair?

I am looking for something in brown or chestnut leather, and in a fairly traditional style. Perhaps a single leather sole. Down the road I would go for suede for a second pair. No tassels or straps.

At the moment I'm considering the Crockett & Jones Boston and Tricker's James.

C&J Boston:-
https://www.crockettandjones.com/boston-darkbrown-country-calf/

Tricker's James:-
https://www.trickers.com/uk/james-penny-loafer-1620.html

The C&J and Tricker's are at least 400 pounds, factoring in shipping, which is fine but I wanted to ask whether anyone can advise me whether they're worth the money when it comes to loafers... As Sanders offer a fully lined goodyear welted loafer for around the 220 pound mark.

Sanders Aldwych:-
https://www.pediwear.co.uk/sanders/products/1198.php

There are possibly others at that lower price point too. Cheaney seem to be around the 350 pound price point.

'Worth the money' is always going to be a subjective thing, and I wouldn't contemplate spending the money if I didn't have it to spend in the first place... But what I am really asking is whether there is enough construction and detailing going on with a pair of loafers in the first place to justify the spend. Will I know the difference between the C&J on my feet versus the Sanders, aside from the fact that I love the grain look of the C&J?

Can anyone offer some feedback or thoughts?

Size-wise I tend to be a 9.5 in dress shoes and was planning on ordering that. I figure I'll be a 9.5 or a 10 at worst.

My suggestion would be to hold out until Edward Green or one of the other higher end makers as a factory sale.

Take the ferry over to England and spend the day in and around the Northampton factory.

Some of the lads I know get some steals that way. You do not have to go to EG but you can go anywhere...CJ, Trickers, AS....

 

[Watchman]

The Trickers are an excellent choice by the way....

 

[Frank Maxwell]

I can offer some limited information on two of those you are considering. While I don't have Sanders' Aldywch, I have four pair of Sanders and have found all of them to be extremely well made and carefully finished of solid materials. They're my preferred make for value priced English shoes. If they save money anywhere, their lower range of shoes may not have as fine quality hides as their top range, or those of more costly makes such as C&J. That's not to say they're poor, or don't look great, but they may not be the most costly available.

I just purchased a pair of Cheaney Howard R penny loafers. Cheaney is now making a high quality product of excellent materials. While not inexpensive, I believe they offer good value for the quality. The workmanship and materials are all first rate. I purchased this because I specifically wanted the mahogany grained leather which is used on one version, but which may be too light for your wishes. I did notice that Herring also sells the same model in burgundy calf, if that's a consideration. However a disqualifier for you may be that it comes with a Dainite sole, but that was another feature I specifically sought. The Howard R is illustrated below.

When considering shoes of this level of quality there is an aspect of diminishing returns in terms of value as you go up the price ladder. Are C&J shoes superb? Few would argue they're not. Do small differences in materials or styling justify the price differences between those, or Trickers, and others? That's very much dependent upon how much the purchaser values those differences.

Hi there, Flanderian,

I'm about to purchase Howard loafers online without having tried them on first - could you please share your experience re how they fit - i.e. true to size or too small, too narrow, and suchlike?

Many thanks in anticipation,

F