[cellochris]

Gents,

It recently came to my attention that the flagship orchestra of my alma mater is going on tour, after a 30 year touring hiatus, to China. They will be leaving three South Korean students behind, in the states.

https://13wham.com/news/local/polit...our-to-china-south-korean-musicians-unwelcome

Extremely disappointing to read.

-Chris

 

[SG_67]

This is the interchange so I will take a bit of liberty with my reply.

This really is shameful and I have always been of the opinion that we, the west and other free countries, should slowly begin to unwind both culturally and financially from China.

The notion that China is a large market is a chimera. Only the politically connected are really allowed to partake in the economy. In return, American companies get robbed of their IP and the events of the past few weeks with the NBA has proven that instead of the US exporting the values of the west to China, instead, these companies espouse the rules and constraints of a totalitarian regime.

American and western businesses and cultural institutions are strong enough to crack open other markets. We should begin leaving China and let them wither. China is a sclerotic and corrupt country. They can’t innovate without stealing and they can’t even grow enough food to feed their own people. Their economy is propped up by government spending funded through exports of cheap crap.

 

[Mike Petrik]

Agreed, SG. Plus it is ignoble to kowtow to bullies.

 

[eagle2250]

While admiring the charitable and very generous inclinations expressed by the three affected members of "the Band," I wish the Orchestra had had the temper to just say no to the trip. But, but didn't the NBA and it's minions just show us how to kiss Chinese a** , to grease the skids for appearing there and stave off the "Red China blues?" Do we, as a Country, not still depend to a disturbing degree on the Chinese to buy up a disturbingly large portion of our national debt? Who, pray tell, is financing our current spending spree of money we just don't have? Constructive, positive core values are a beautiful thing, but reality can still be pretty damned ugly! Just thinking. :icon_scratch:

 

[SG_67]

While admiring the charitable and very generous inclinations expressed by the three affected members of "the Band," I wish the Orchestra had had the temper to just say no to the trip. But, but didn't the NBA and it's minions just show us how to kiss Chinese a** , to grease the skids for appearing there and stave off the "Red China blues?" Do we, as a Country, not still depend to a disturbing degree on the Chinese to buy up a disturbingly large portion of our national debt? Who, pray tell, is financing our current spending spree of money we just don't have? Constructive, positive core values are a beautiful thing, but reality can still be pretty damned ugly! Just thinking. :icon_scratch:

Actually the Chinese own surprisingly little of the overall debt, though they are the largest foreign debt owner.

That debt could be redistributed to other countries that we could do business with. I read once that 1 out of every 5 people on earth is a Chinese peasant. Most of these will never experience the prosperity and wealth of the connected few. So the notion that it's this large market with a billion customers is flawed.
China is a country that doesn't even trust its own human capital.

 

[Andy]

Any relationship to this orchestra and MLB? ⚾ Or the known fact that you can not stand up for the USA National Anthem if you're wearing Nike shoes? 🇺🇸

 

[eagle2250]

Actually the Chinese own surprisingly little of the overall debt, though they are the largest foreign debt owner.

That debt could be redistributed to other countries that we could do business with. I read once that 1 out of every 5 people on earth is a Chinese peasant. Most of these will never experience the prosperity and wealth of the connected few. So the notion that it's this large market with a billion customers is flawed.
China is a country that doesn't even trust its own human capital.

Based on my research assistant, Google, China holds 27% or $1.1 Trillion of the $4.1 Trillion of US debt held by other countries. You are right, American citizens and the US government hold the majority of our country's debt. Indeed, somewhere in the safe or in the safe deposit box or buried out in the back yard, I have (or perhaps had) a careers worth ( 22+ years) of monthly savings bonds purchased. In terms of returns realized, at least, I would not necessarily call them a good investment.

 

[SG_67]

Based on my research assistant, Google, China holds 27% or $1.1 Trillion of the $4.1 Trillion of US debt held by other countries. You are right, American citizens and the US government hold the majority of our country's debt. Indeed, somewhere in the safe or in the safe deposit box or buried out in the back yard, I have (or perhaps had) a careers worth ( 22+ years) of monthly savings bonds purchased. In terms of returns realized, at least, I would not necessarily call them a good investment.

It is the debt that China holds that allows them to finance these huge public works projects, such as developing cities which stay empty, and artificially boost their growth.

My argument has always been that China is just a market. We can crack open other markets and not be so entwined with them. Let's see how China copes when they are not receiving back as many $$$ as they are now. Let's see how their own currency fares, as right now it's little better than a token at a Dave & Busters.