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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Based on what I have read on this forum, most AAAC'ers consider C&J to be a top-3 RTW shoe brand.

Also, based on this forum, the 337 last appears to be AAAC'ers last of choice for C&J. I found a picture of another pair of shoes that are supposedly built on the 337 last (see url below)
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=102094

Will all shoes built on the 337 last have the same toe shape as the shoes in the url above? If so then this is a very nice toe shape. Also, I assume that the 337 is a fairly neutral last in regards to pronation/supination - or the last is shaped for the majority of people who get the most shoe wear on the back outside edges of their heels. I've read that the 337 last fits about 1/2 size large so if I normally wear an 11 then I assume that I should order the shoes in a 10.5.

It seems like most AAAC'ers recommend PLAL for buying C&J.

So in conclusion, if I I'm looking for a high quality pair of black cap toes at an affordable price then it appears that buying the C&J Whitehall's on a 337 last from PLAL would be the most common recommendation on this forum. Please let me know.

Also, how would you compare the comfort of these shoes to other shoes? For example, what's it like to walk a mile in these shoes?
 

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The Whitehall is/was part of the Handgrade line. C&J seems not to be making it anymore, but pediwear has a limited range of sizes left:

https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/220.php

It's not made on the 337 last, but on the 330 last, which has a more rounded toe.

Personally, I prefer the more rounded C&J toe shape (as in the Westfield Benchgrade half-brogue) to the somewhat chisel-shaped toe of the 337.

The C&J non-Handgrade (or Benchgrade) version of this shoe (a plain-cap oxford) is the Connaught (if you have a medium-with foot) or the Bedford (if you have a narrow or a wide foot).

If you like a squarish toe but are looking in the Benchgrade range, the Hallam, Westbourne, Edgware, and Drummond are all made on the 348 last.
 

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I am just the opposite ....

I prefer the C&J 337 last with the more elegant chiseled toe. I have two pair of Weymouths and am thinking of a third in black (I have them in brown and antique tan). I normally wear a D width but find that many shoes are too wide in the D fitting. With the 337 last, the E fitting is the best that I have been able to find. Also, the long vamp makes for a more elegant style. British round toes are obviously not for me. My US size is 9D (when I can find one that fits) so I take an 8-1/2 E fitting in the Waymouth. For the price, these are the best and most elegant dress shoes I have owned. Also, I have some BB Peel's made by C&J which fit very well. They are made to different specifications, but at 25% off during sale plus some coupons earned from my BB Master card, I can generally get the price down to around $350. I would stay with the handgrades and order from P.Lal. I had to get the antique tan shoes from Ben Silver, but I had a lot of problems with Silver and would not use them again. It seems that the antique tan Weymouths are only available from Silver.
 

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With the exchange rate being what it is you may want to consider pediwear. Plal is fine but I find ordering from pediwear easier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The Whitehall is/was part of the Handgrade line. C&J seems not to be making it anymore, but pediwear has a limited range of sizes left:

https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/220.php

It's not made on the 337 last, but on the 330 last, which has a more rounded toe.

Personally, I prefer the more rounded C&J toe shape (as in the Westfield Benchgrade half-brogue) to the somewhat chisel-shaped toe of the 337.

The C&J non-Handgrade (or Benchgrade) version of this shoe (a plain-cap oxford) is the Connaught (if you have a medium-with foot) or the Bedford (if you have a narrow or a wide foot).

If you like a squarish toe but are looking in the Benchgrade range, the Hallam, Westbourne, Edgware, and Drummond are all made on the 348 last.
I've been looking at some different C&J models on the web and it looks like I might like the C&J 330 last better than the 337 last. I read a thread on styleforum that numerous posters had 1.5" extra room in the toe area of their 337 C&J's. I wear a size 11 shoe size so I really don't like to make my feet look any longer than they already are.

Unfortunately, I went to www.plal.com and all of the handgrade shoes that plal currently offers are built on the 337 last (none appear to be available on the 330 last).

However, Ben Silver has the Whitehall in all sizes (but the price is $665). Are these a perennial classic so C&J doesn't license plal to deep discount them?

Also, what are the main differences between C&J benchgrade and handgrade and do you think handgrade worth the extra money over benchgrade? I saw a few pictures of the Connaughts on the web and I saw a few pictures of the Whitehalls on the web. Based on a few photos on the web, the shoes look pretty similar (and I'm a pretty picky person).
 

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I've been looking at some different C&J models on the web and it looks like I might like the C&J 330 last better than the 337 last. I read a thread on styleforum that numerous posters had 1.5" extra room in the toe area of their 337 C&J's. I wear a size 11 shoe size so I really don't like to make my feet look any longer than they already are.

Unfortunately, I went to www.plal.com and all of the handgrade shoes that plal currently offers are built on the 337 last (none appear to be available on the 330 last).

However, Ben Silver has the Whitehall in all sizes (but the price is $665). Are these a perennial classic so C&J doesn't license plal to deep discount them?

Also, what are the main differences between C&J benchgrade and handgrade and do you think handgrade worth the extra money over benchgrade? I saw a few pictures of the Connaughts on the web and I saw a few pictures of the Whitehalls on the web. Based on a few photos on the web, the shoes look pretty similar (and I'm a pretty picky person).
The Handgrades are pretty much moot for me since I don't like the squarish toe style they all seem to come in now. And the 337 did feel elongated to me when I tried on shoes in that last. I wouldn't pay BS's ridiculous premium; if you must have Whitehalls, try contacting P. Lal's staff about obtaining a pair. That said, there's no way you'll be sorry you bought Connaughts; they're excellent shoes. Except perhaps at gatherings of AAAC shoe fetishists or billionaires, you'll almost always be the best-shod man in the room if you're wearing Connaughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That said, there's no way you'll be sorry you bought Connaughts; they're excellent shoes. Except perhaps at gatherings of AAAC shoe fetishists or billionaires, you'll almost always be the best-shod man in the room if you're wearing Connaughts.
Wow - That's quite an endorsement. This statement gives me the impression that the Connaughts are noticibly better than Allen Edmonds and Alden. Would you say that this is the case?

Also, I've only glanced over the differences between benchgrade and handgrade, but it seems like the main difference between the 2 are that the handgrade has stitching through the bottom of the sole and the welting is supposed to be better. From what I understand, the upper leather may be the same quality (I may be wrong on this, please correct me if I'm wrong) but handgrade may have "antique finish" options (which I'm not interested in).

The shoes will probably need to be resoled in 3 years anyway if I wear the shoes 3-4 times/week. At this point, I would get the shoes resoled with Redenbach soles. From what I have read on this forum, I would probably be just as satisfied with the Redenbach soles as I would with the handgrade soles (as far as comfort, quality and durability). Also, if I have shoes with a welted sole then it seems like the welting would get replaced anyway when I have my shoes resoled. Is this correct?
 

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Wow - That's quite an endorsement. This statement gives me the impression that the Connaughts are noticibly better than Allen Edmonds and Alden. Would you say that this is the case?

Also, I've only glanced over the differences between benchgrade and handgrade, but it seems like the main difference between the 2 are that the handgrade has stitching through the bottom of the sole and the welting is supposed to be better. From what I understand, the upper leather may be the same quality (I may be wrong on this, please correct me if I'm wrong) but handgrade may have "antique finish" options (which I'm not interested in).

The shoes will probably need to be resoled in 3 years anyway if I wear the shoes 3-4 times/week. At this point, I would get the shoes resoled with Redenbach soles. From what I have read on this forum, I would probably be just as satisfied with the Redenbach soles as I would with the handgrade soles (as far as comfort, quality and durability). Also, if I have shoes with a welted sole then it seems like the welting would get replaced anyway when I have my shoes resoled. Is this correct?
1) If you wear A-E Park Aves or Aldens, you'll also probably be the best-shod man in the room. Legions of men wear fairly lousy shoes, even with decent suits.

2) I'm not privy to inside info from C&J, but my layman's impression is that the Handgrades are made from hides that are more selectively, well, selected, have (pricier) oak-tanned soles, and have more handwork involved in their manufacture. Skilled humans are expensive; just ask all the folks that Alfred Sargent laid off recently.

3) My impression is that the Goodyear welt remains when shoes are resoled, but if mistaken I would be glad to be corrected by someone with the requisite technical knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Those Conaughts are pretty nice. Does anyone have a pair in black that they could post?

I have a pair of black Armani captoes that I've been wearing for about 2 years. Here's a pic - https://tinyurl.com/c45jl9. They haven't been polished or shined in a while.

The Conaughts may have better construction and may be more comfortable than the Armani captoes but the Armani captoes appear to be a better looking shoe overall based on these pictures.

BUT, the *Whitehalls* may look better overall compared to my Armani captoes because of the Whitehall's upgraded leather/tanning process. Also, I have a strong preference for *black* captoes so maybe this is affecting my judgement as well....
 
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