[Fading Fast]

Just caught this story from the WSJ from back in August:

The New Intimidation-Free Way to Get a Custom Suit
By
Jacob Gallagher
Aug. 9, 2018 1:53 p.m. ET

A new guard of millennial tailors is reinventing the fusty art of bespoke menswear, and removing the intimidation factor

WHO BUYS custom suits these days? Joseph Leli, a 48-year-old regional manager for a Napa winery, used to believe only high-level executives kept tailors on speed dial. But then he was tipped off to BLVDier, a "made-to-measure atelier" that opened in Chicago's trendy Fulton Market District in 2015. "Right off the bat it was a different experience than what I thought, in a positive way," said Mr. Leli. He was greeted with an espresso by BLVDier's owner Zach Uttich, 33, who chatted easily with Mr. Leli about upgrading from his off-the-rack Hugo Boss suits. With the intimidation factor removed, Mr. Leli happily joined the expanding ranks of the custom-clothed....​

Full article: the-new-hipper-way-to-get-a-custom-suit-1533837227

It is a subscription site, but sometimes if you Google a few key words you can get to the article that way as, I'm guessing, the WSJ sees it as a teaser way to get your attention (and maybe subscription).

I'm always put off by how sloppily the writers of these article conflate made-to-measure and custom - two very different things.

 

[JLibourel]

I always thought the only "intimidating" thing about getting a bespoke suit was the cost!

 

[SG_67]

Given the level of intimidation with dressing, I’m surprised the author is able to function and interact with his surroundings on other matters.

 

[Fading Fast]

Given the level of intimidation with dressing, I'm surprised the author is able to function and interact with his surroundings on other matters.

I was a bit surprised by the angle of the article as well as, while I've never done custom, I've done MTM many times and did not find it intimidating.

To be sure, I've shopped in some high-end and, even, mid-level stores where a particular salesman's or the particular boutique's attitude was trying to be intimidating (or snooty or "exclusive" or something like that), but that is more the exception. In general, most stores are happy to have customers and, while not all are effusive, most know how to treat their customers reasonably well.

This seemed like either a solution in search of a problem or a writer desperate for and "angle" or "hook" for his story.

 

[MNJ83]

Article=Basically everyone under 40 is stupid, vapid and is “scared” to go to a traditional bespoke suit fitting, hence we need a nursery-like environment to get our suits made.

Whenever I have bespoke suits made, I want to make sure I see lots of older experienced men working there.

 

[Dhaller]

It's common for people to interpret their discomfort with something unfamiliar as "intimidation", and businesses which address this are usually well poised for gaining new clients.

A good example: I have a friend who owns several auto repair shops, a place traditionally intimidating to many people, especially women. It has a very nice waiting area (large and brightly lit, with a children's room and popular magazines, a manned coffee stand with fancy coffees, etc), versus the usual grimy waiting area with auto magazines. The staff are all required to be clean and presentable at all times, and even the mechanics must wear ties (visible under the "vee" of the coveralls). The coveralls are a branded uniform. The mechanics must be clean shaven (and it wouldn't surprise me if he has some women mechanics, for whom it wouldn't be an issue!) - I remember him sending a mechanic home who'd arrived at the shop not having shaved; place is a tight ship. He himself is never seen, even at the shop, in anything but a well-fitted suit, tie, and pocket square (he's Italian, FWIW).

So, he has completely upended the image of an auto repair shop, removing the "intimidation" factor, and does very well indeed for himself (he does other things as well - I believe he sponsors a racecar or NASCAR driver or something, as I know he services race cars - but the shop culture is the big thing).

I can certainly see a tailor benefiting from a more approachable shop environment.

DH

 

[TheBarbaron]

On the one hand, I've definitely never felt intimidated going to look for clothing; on the other, as someone who runs a "new model" custom showroom, I don't think the WSJ manufactured the problem-in-need-of-solution from whole cloth.

A surprising proportion (perhaps as many as 15-20%, depending on the month) of our first time customers are intimidated by custom (either the perceived price, which they expect to be higher or the number of options or fit questions they could potentially "mess up"), or by selecting clothes in general. These clients are at pains to tell us that they're no good at matching things, that they have no idea what their suit should fit like, etc.

For these clients (and for others, who simply don't want to be bothered taking an interest or going to multiple locations to kit out a wardrobe), having a one-on-one environment and someone who is willing to either educate them (or decide for them) seems to be a real value-add.

 

[Flanderian]

My tailor used to offer anisette and coffee as I thumbed through bunches. Complain about the inherent corruption of politicians and his vitriolic hatred of organized crime figures in the the news. Growing up in Calabria in the '40's he got to enjoy first hand the 'Ndrangheta squeezing the all ready impoverished shop keepers.

One Christmas he decided to make a big batch of authentic Calabrian marinara and braciole and insisted I take a couple jars home to my family.

 

[phyrpowr]

Consider that we (most of us, anyway) were "handed over" to professional clothing salesmen at an early age, usually by men who'd been buying their own clothes for decades. By adulthood we knew a decent amount about cloth, construction and fit. Going MTM, or even to a bespoke tailor was just a next step.

Contrast that with today's young, and even middle-aged men who might have zero experience with tailored clothing. They're going to need a different type and level of help.

 

[16412]

The hippie generation didn't help pass along the knowledge. In fact one of there songs was against tailors. Rather strange when one artist (musicians) goes against another artist (tailors). Artist are supposed to support art - Therefore, each other!

 

[JBierly]

Consider that we (most of us, anyway) were "handed over" to professional clothing salesmen at an early age, usually by men who'd been buying their own clothes for decades. By adulthood we knew a decent amount about cloth, construction and fit. Going MTM, or even to a bespoke tailor was just a next step.

Contrast that with today's young, and even middle-aged men who might have zero experience with tailored clothing. They're going to need a different type and level of help.

A lot of truth to this - I took a younger friend of mine to get a suit tailored. First time experience at age 28. Mine was more like 17.

 

[Fading Fast]

A lot of truth to this - I took a younger friend of mine to get a suit tailored. First time experience at age 28. Mine was more like 17.

I was born in '64 into a very modest home (think the TV show "The Wonder Years" and you'd be pretty close), but, pretty much every year, growing up, my mom bought me a navy blazer, pair of dress slacks and shirt (from a discount store like Robert Hall) so that I had one "nice" outfit for weddings, funerals, class pictures, etc.

And I wasn't an outlier, most of the kids in the neighborhood had the same rig. Either in the store or at a the dry cleaner, we'd have the clothes tailored (which only meant making the waist fit and sleeve and pants length correct - and left a bit long to allow for growth - but not all the stuff we do here to tailor clothes).

Even when I bought my first suit, in my teens, the tailoring was whatever the discount store or dry cleaner tailor did as I had no input - and no knowledge if I had wanted to have input - so I really wasn't learning much.

It wasn't until I got my first job on Wall Street, in my early 20s, and went with my boss to buy a suit that I started learning about how clothes should fit and all the magic a good tailor could do.

I don't think I was an exception. I believe a lot of guys who didn't learn it from their fathers growing up, learned about suits and tailoring from bosses or senior co-workers early in their careers - but that probably doesn't happen anymore (except maybe in the legal and a few other still-suit-wearing professions).

 

[The Irishman]

I see a parallel here with fine dining, to an extent. I have friends and colleagues who are as nervous as children on their first day at school when confronted with a restaurant and menu of this type. Journalists and others, perhaps cut from the same cloth, will talk of the fustiness and formality associated, but the reality is that most of the discomfort and tension is in the person's own head. The truth is that whether we are in front of a tailor, a mechanic or a waiter in a michelin starred restaurant, most of the time no one really cares enough to raise an eyebrow or tut tut about what other people are doing, so why worry.

I would agree with an earlier point about cost being the real barrier.

 

[Dhaller]

I see a parallel here with fine dining, to an extent. I have friends and colleagues who are as nervous as children on their first day at school when confronted with a restaurant and menu of this type.

Fine dining is the perfect analogy.

Basically, experiencing anything new is a stressor.

I remember many years ago going into an actual "biker" bar (I actually had a reason for it, but it evades me - I think I was looking for someone, this being the pre-cellphone era, when you sometimes actually had to go looking for people). I felt as though every eye in the (smoky, dark) place swiveled toward me when I walked in (and probably they did, as I would have been wearing a suit or sport jacket in those days). But of course my money was green, and everyone was busy with their own lives. I wound up shooting some pool (I grew up with a competition-size pool table in the basement and was a sharp player, so I had something familiar to occupy myself with).

It's the same kind of experience for many folks visiting a tailor. Probably, since you're new to it, you're dressed "wrong" as you go in - and of course the tailors are smartly dressed, so you're already feeling out of place - and it's even worse because you might be the only customer in the store (there's that "all eyes" feeling). The merchandise may be unfamiliar, and so on. I can certainly see the benefit in making that initial contact more "familiar" (for example, Miller Brothers in Atlanta offers a beer, and there's a kind of leather and brass mancave lounge with overstuffed chairs and while it's very "clubby", the television usually has "the game" on and so forth - not my cuppa, but I can see how it comforts some.)

DH

 

[16412]

A college here had a class to teach young men the proper conduct, clothing, etc. so they could step into the business world with some confidence. Doubt that class exist anymore. They would have a hard time finding someone to teach nowadays.

 

[SG_67]

.....
I remember many years ago going into an actual "biker" bar (I actually had a reason for it, but it evades me - I think I was looking for someone, this being the pre-cellphone era, when you sometimes actually had to go looking for people). I felt as though every eye in the (smoky, dark) place swiveled toward me when I walked in (and probably they did, as I would have been wearing a suit or sport jacket in those days). But of course my money was green, and everyone was busy with their own lives. I wound up shooting some pool (I grew up with a competition-size pool table in the basement and was a sharp player, so I had something familiar to occupy myself....
DH

 

[zzdocxx]

But the term "custom" vs "MTM" vs "bespoke" . . .

Where does custom fit into this? Is there such a thing?

I know, we've had this discussion forever, but maybe that's why the use of the term surprises me. Have we accepted a different definition?

Some please bring me up to speed.

:beer:

 

[medhat]

Yuk. As a long time subscriber to the WSJ (preceding even my membership to AAAC!), i'm really disappointed with this article, which escaped my notice when it first appeared. It reads MUCH more like an ad for the the businesses mentioned than an article about a trend in menswear. In particular, the presumption by the writer that "though often under 40, these tailors typically have the training to deliver the impeccable fit that is the raison d’être of custom suiting." With the exception of Sid Mashburn, mentioned several times in the read, I don't recall too many of the other names coming to mind when I'm thinking of either contemporary styling houses or sources for bespoke or even MTM tailoring. I think Mr. Gallagher, knowingly or not, has bought a ticket on a hype train.

 

[JLibourel]

But the term "custom" vs "MTM" vs "bespoke" . . .

Where does custom fit into this? Is there such a thing?

I know, we've had this discussion forever, but maybe that's why the use of the term surprises me. Have we accepted a different definition?

Some please bring me up to speed.

:beer:

I always thought "custom" and "bespoke" were synonymous when it came to clothing. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken in this. I think American tailoring houses are more likely to use "custom" in preference to the British "bespoke," but that's just a vague impression on my part.

 

[TheBarbaron]

I always thought "custom" and "bespoke" were synonymous when it came to clothing. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken in this. I think American tailoring houses are more likely to use "custom" in preference to the British "bespoke," but that's just a vague impression on my part.

Bespoke is a pretty specific animal; Made to Measure and Made to Order fill out the rest of the category. I see custom used (responsibly) as the composite of everything above - not off the rack.

Most uninitiated folks use custom and bespoke interchangeably, but they're often confused about the specifics - my shop is purely MTM, and uses custom a lot in the ad copy, but I have to correct a number of clients who repeatedly refer to it as bespoke.