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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just curious about what fellow members thought of the £30,000 suit? (that's the starting price / how much is it in Vicuna?) The Tailor has even attached a currency convertor. Is this hype or is it reality?

I have attached the weblink for your convenience or here is the text from the site -

The ultimate suit, and a chance to fully showcase my hard learned craft..
As one of only a very few true tailors who is a genuine practicing cut and make tailor, I am offering a service for the discerning client that I believe is the best in the world.......A FULL HAND MADE SUIT WHERE EVERY SINGLE STITCH WILL BE DONE BY HAND.

This service is aimed at the client who wants the absolute truest and purest form of tailoring that money can buy.

I will personally place every single stitch in your suit by hand, a machine will never touch the garment at any stage.

This hand making is the absolute pinnacle of tailoring, and will create a garment that is unique and unparalleled from any other tailor in the world.

Your suit will take me so long to make it can not be measured in man hours, it will take MONTHS of my time to make the perfectly crafted suit.

The finished suit will appear as if it has not been hand crafted, but sculpted around your torso, the wearing of the suit and the softness will be unrivaled by anything else that can be offered from any other tailor or tailoring company.

The fabric and trimmings selected for the suit will be of the finest quality and will come from the best merchants in their field.

The price for this service will start at £30,000 for a 2 piece suit and WILL BE LIMITED TO MAKING ONLY 2 SUITS PER YEAR. currency converter.
 

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I was just curious about what fellow members thought of the £30,000 suit? (that's the starting price / how much is it in Vicuna?) The Tailor has even attached a currency convertor. Is this hype or is it reality?

I have attached the weblink for your convenience or here is the text from the site -

The ultimate suit, and a chance to fully showcase my hard learned craft..
As one of only a very few true tailors who is a genuine practicing cut and make tailor, I am offering a service for the discerning client that I believe is the best in the world.......A FULL HAND MADE SUIT WHERE EVERY SINGLE STITCH WILL BE DONE BY HAND.

This service is aimed at the client who wants the absolute truest and purest form of tailoring that money can buy.

I will personally place every single stitch in your suit by hand, a machine will never touch the garment at any stage.

This hand making is the absolute pinnacle of tailoring, and will create a garment that is unique and unparalleled from any other tailor in the world.

Your suit will take me so long to make it can not be measured in man hours, it will take MONTHS of my time to make the perfectly crafted suit.

The finished suit will appear as if it has not been hand crafted, but sculpted around your torso, the wearing of the suit and the softness will be unrivaled by anything else that can be offered from any other tailor or tailoring company.

The fabric and trimmings selected for the suit will be of the finest quality and will come from the best merchants in their field.

The price for this service will start at £30,000 for a 2 piece suit and WILL BE LIMITED TO MAKING ONLY 2 SUITS PER YEAR. currency converter.
William Westmancott offers the same exact ultimate bespoke service. Except that with William Westmancott you get a minimum of about £60,000 worth and a maximum of about £90,000 worth of clothing for £45,000 (versus £30,000 worth of clothing for £30,000 with Des Merrion).

Just like Des Merrion, William Westmancott is one of Savile Row's four best tailors. And, just like Des Merrion, William Westmancott is one of the 15 best tailors in existence (the other 13, as I said in one of my reply message to another topic, being William Fioravanti, Frank Shattuck, Tony Maurizio, Vincenzo Sanitate, Maurice Sedwell, Rubinacci London, Gianni Campagna, Caraceni Milan, Rubinacci Milan, Caraceni Rome, Rubinacci Naples, Liverano & Liverano and J.H. Cutler, who is located in Sydney, Australia). This is all based on all around quality and craftsmanship, particularly hand sewing and handmade machine sewing (both quantity and quality of hand sewing and handmade machine sewing) but also fabric quality and all other aspects of quality and craftsmanship (far too many to mention here).

For £30,000, you only get once choice or two choices: a two-piece suit consisting of a jacket and one pair of pants, the choice that you definitely get or, the choice that you may or may not get, a two-piece tuxedo consisting of a jacket and one pair of pants from Des Merrion ultimate bespoke.

For £45,000, you get the following choices from William Westmancott ultimate bespoke: a two-piece suit or a two-piece tuxedo (consisting of one pair of pants along with either a jacket, morning coat or a tailcoat), a three-piece suit or tuxedo (consisting of one pair of pants and vest or two similar or identical pairs of pants with no vest along with either a jacket, a morning coat or a tailcoat) or a four-piece suit or tuxedo (consisting of two similar or identical pairs of pants and a vest along with either a jacket, a morning coat or a tailcoat). Of course, with each suit or tuxedo, a jacket, a morning coat and a tailcoat are mutually exclusive. And, with each ultimate bespoke purchase, you can have a suit or a tuxedo but not both. With each ultimate bespoke purchase, you also get six ultimate bespoke dress shirts with each suit or six ultimate bespoke formal shirts with each tuxedo. Each ultimate custom shirt is worth £2,475 and is included with each ultimate bespoke purchase, free of charge. That is a total of 12 choices! (YIKES!!!!!!!!!! :0) Basically, there is a mandatory discount that is a minimum of 25% and a maximum of 50%.

Otherwise, to my knowledge, ultimate bespoke from both of these tailors is exactly the same (absolutely nothing different at all)! (again, YIKES!!!!!!!!!! :0)
 

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Unless I make the Forbes 400, I won't be purchasing a 30,000 GBP suit or even a 45,000 GBP.

I don't think that stitching every stitch by hand is inherently better than doing the long straight seams with a machine. I agree hand stitching is better for the armholes and the like.

How do you determine the best 15 tailors in the world? How do you quantify that?
 

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"Yes, this is expensive but there are suits and then there are SUITS. Remember you are paying for ONE craftsman to work on your suit from measuring to finish for a few months. "

and this is better then a normal bespoke suit how?

For £30k, I could go to Huntsman or Henry Poole and get 5 bespoke suits and 2 bespoke dinner suits with money to spare.

WW charges £45K; that extra £15k should cover bespoke shirts from Turnbull & Asser, custom made belts and MTM shoes from Edward Green.

For the £30-45k, I would want to see how this is better then bespoke. I suppose not is stupid enough to spend so much on a suit. If I had silly money, went mad and decided to spend this money on a suit, I would go to WW.
 

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"Yes, this is expensive but there are suits and then there are SUITS. Remember you are paying for ONE craftsman to work on your suit from measuring to finish for a few months. "

and this is better then a normal bespoke suit how?

For £30k, I could go to Huntsman or Henry Poole and get 5 bespoke suits and 2 bespoke dinner suits with money to spare.

WW charges £45K; that extra £15k should cover bespoke shirts from Turnbull & Asser, custom made belts and MTM shoes from Edward Green.

For the £30-45k, I would want to see how this is better then bespoke. I suppose not is stupid enough to spend so much on a suit. If I had silly money, went mad and decided to spend this money on a suit, I would go to WW.
Seconded. I could get everything in top quality bespoke for the price of one of these suits.
 

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You might find this lengthy discussion (from last January) of Des Merrion's 30K suit of some interest:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=77750

I should note that Mr Merrion is a member of this Forum as is Mr Westmancott. The latter's pricing policies have also been discussed at some length, Here are just two snippets:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=76134

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=76283
Good read.

My comments were about their ultimate bespoke and not their normal bespoke suits. I do think there was too much focus on his prices, a person spends at least £3.6k on a Huntmans bespoke then going to somewhere like Dege and spend £1k less, because they are happy going to Huntsman. Why go to Dege if you will not be 100% happy, considering the money being spent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
With all due respect to Mr Merrion and Mr Westmancott, they maybe members of the forum but maybe if they could take stage to discuss and maybe post some pictures of why spending 30GBP on garment gives an ultimate bespoke experience.
The reason for bringing this up again is that in our workshops today we had a discussion about the same type of suit - completley handmade with no piece touched by machine and as to why this is different or better. The answer from our coatmaker was this. Now considering he has been in the trade for 45 years and his father was a tailor for his entire life then maybe we should listen to his response. He also started his apprenticship with one of the above mentioned Savile Row Tailors.

"Along time ago his father used to do everything by hand and that means sewing every seam - the lot - he was also trained like this as well. However for a number of reasons and in his opinion there needs to be a level of machine stiching in a coat but still with a significant degree of hand stiching in the garment" to give it character. We then discussed the 30kGBP suit and his response was "well if they can get that good luck to them!"

The question is about perceived value?
 

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I was just curious about what fellow members thought of the £30,000 suit?
Silliness cubed!

Anyone who doesn't have something better to do with that sum needs to give it to me!

About 25 years ago, Rolls Royce had a marketing problem, Mercedes had started building automobiles that were ostensibly superior in many regards, but sold for about 20% less. Problem solved! Rolls more than doubled their pricing without changing the cars a bit!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
How can you tell who are the best tailors in the world - surely it is opinion?

Who are the top 10 guitarists in the world - dead or alive

Your answer will be different than mine

If you asked one of our clients who regulary buys bespoke suits from us and may have used a Savile Row tailor or maybe one of your mentioned top 20 before they came to us then they will say us. Although I would be quite happy to put one of our Bespoke Suits against any mentioned then the question would be - who judges it

Therefore it is a very difficult subject to get right or even comment on
 

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Just like Des Merrion, William Westmancott is one of Savile Row's four best tailors. And, just like Des Merrion, William Westmancott is one of the 15 best tailors in existence
Balderdash!!! (and I mean that in the most gentlemanly way :icon_smile_wink:)

Des Merrion is not a Savile Row tailor...as competent as he may be, there are a good many others who have had far greater experience, have refined their craftsmanship to a greater extent, and who consistently produce quality clothing at a higher level than the examples I have seen of his work. I sincerely doubt that Mr Merrion would claim such a status for himself. He seems to be a very forthright and candid gent. William Westmancott is certainly a competent craftsman as well, but to rank him as one of the fifteen best tailors in existence is a bit far-reaching. His work didn't rank up there when he was with Dege or Anthony Hewitt so I am unsure what has lifted him to this exalted status. But my aim is not to denigrate either. I am sure they are able to craft a decent suit. But I would suggest that they neither stand out above the crowd nor can one justify the price of these high priced garments other than to note that the price tag has indeed added to their notoriety. :idea:
 

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"Along time ago his father used to do everything by hand and that means sewing every seam - the lot - he was also trained like this as well. However for a number of reasons and in his opinion there needs to be a level of machine stiching in a coat but still with a significant degree of hand stiching in the garment" to give it character. We then discussed the 30kGBP suit and his response was "well if they can get that good luck to them!"
Some tailors would disagree with that. A a hand sewn seam is different than a machine sewn seam. Hand sewn seam is softer and more flexible, not to mention stronger when done right. Some tailors say to do the seat seam right it has to be done by hand and the same with the leg seam, at least the top 12" or more, after that it is cutting to many corner. All horse riding and ski trousers need the seat seam hand sewn. The sewing machine is quick and easy, but more ridged. Nowadays ski clothes are completely machine sewn. When it comes to coats, if the hand sewer is good (no grinning stitches), then the more hand sewn the better. The coat already has thousands of hand sewn stitches in it, so add a few seams. Compare a machine at 5,000 stitches per minute to hand sewing at 33 stitches per minute and you can see why so many tailors went cheap.

What surprised me is when Des said he would do it at his age. While I expect a younger person such as William to come up with a high price I really didn't think Des would. These high prices are certainly reasonable if they and family are flown to some far away place like Thihiti to make such a fine suit. But, more power to them. There is also the cost of cloth, some is over $10,000 per yard, so now Des is loosing money, big time, because you need 3 1/2 yards for the average person. So, what is a fair price for a hand sewn suit?
 
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