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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know that usually to get a high quality shirt that fits well you have to spend a certain minimum amount of money. Anything less and the differences between that and something that costs more will be noticeable. However, beyond a certain point, the incremental value isn' there. For example, where I live and shop, the differences between a $50 RTW shirt and a $250 shirt (whether MTM or high quality RTW altered by a tailor) are quite stark and noticeable. However when you are paying upwards of $600 a shirt, the difference is not as meaningful or noticeable. I know I'm going to have all the bespoke tailors shoot at me and point out my ignorance in not noticing this detail and that detail, and you are right...but sometimes that huge extra expense is not really worth it unless money is no object and you have plenty to burn. I definitely don't and if I get 95% of what I want for 50% of what it costs to get 100% of it, I'll settle for 95%.

OK, shoot at me, I've got my bullet proof vest (in navy blue) on. :icon_smile_big:
 

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Cabbage, I believe the Economic point you've expressed here is "diminshing return," based upon the buyer's perceived utilization (i.e, "bang for the buck.") :teacha:

This model is used in all purchasing decisions. For example, I might spend $60,000 on a Mercedes because I believe the vehicle is far superior to a $15,000 Kia, but there's no way in he double hockey sticks I'm forkin' over $350,000 for a Bentley--because I just can't justify spending that kind of money for just a single car.

Kind Regards,

Chase
 

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I have found that Lands End tailored fit dress shirts in the $40-50 range fit me really well and look good too. If they didn't fit me the way I like or look good it might be a different story, but I just can't see spending more for a dress shirt if LE has what I need at this price.

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I have found that Lands End tailored fit dress shirts in the $40-50 range fit me really well and look good too. If they didn't fit me the way I like or look good it might be a different story, but I just can't see spending more for a dress shirt if LE has what I need at this price.

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+1 I bought a custom shirt from BB because LE didn't have the fit/color/style combo I was looking for and the BB is indeed a better shirt. However, it cost ~2.5x what I spent on my other LE shirts and I'm not sure I see 2.5x of added value in it.

As Sator would remind us, shirts are undergarments. $40 seems to buy me a good fit and quality fabric and I just don't see paying more for something mostly covered by a jacket. Now if I was wearing shirts as 'outergarments' I suppose I might spend more, but that would just cut into my jacket budget :icon_smile_wink:
 

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There is a big different between suits then there is with shirts, the only reason I may select MTM is the material. I am quite lucky, 15.5" Gieves shirt fit really well that even they admitted going for MTM would be a waste-of-money and time.

As for bespoke, the different would be very minimal especially compared to MTM; however, I think I would get a few shirts made when I get a bespoke suit.
 

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So, what price for basic MTM and/or bespoke shirts?

I've seen the values skirted about here, and I believe it was Will who said if I spend more than $90 per shirt I should be going to a shirtmaker instead. He didn't say what I might expect to be spending for a straightforward OCBD or broadcloth single button cuff. I also see prices such as $250 per shirt mentioned above. I live in the metro Denver area and know only of The Shirt Broker, and Concord Custom Shop & Tailors as tailors that have been spoken of well here on this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've seen the values skirted about here, and I believe it was Will who said if I spend more than $90 per shirt I should be going to a shirtmaker instead. He didn't say what I might expect to be spending for a straightforward OCBD or broadcloth single button cuff. I also see prices such as $250 per shirt mentioned above. I live in the metro Denver area and know only of The Shirt Broker, and Concord Custom Shop & Tailors as tailors that have been spoken of well here on this forum.
I'll tell you where I get my figures from.

$250 is what I've paid at Eredi Pisano and Ascot Chang for MTM.
$500+ is what I've been told at Borrelli or Domenico Vacca. The incremental benefit wasn't worth it to me because I have money but not that much money.
 

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I'll tell you where I get my figures from.

$250 is what I've paid at Eredi Pisano and Ascot Chang for MTM.
$500+ is what I've been told at Borrelli or Domenico Vacca. The incremental benefit wasn't worth it to me because I have money but not that much money.
It depends on the brand and where individuals get the price from (asking store, looking online, etc).

Gieves and Hawkes shirts start at £95 with MTM at £135. The normally have 3 for 2 shirt offer (RTW and MTM) and sometimes 3 RTW shirts for £150. Do not know the cost of bespoke shirt.
 

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Not trying to be obnoxious, but . . .

I'm not shooting, but I am curious.

Do you think it would be possible to describe in print, without my being there to examine the item, what the differences might be between what I would ordinarily spend on a dress shirt ($20-30 at Lands End, assuming I don't find them on sale) and what I would get for $250 or $500?

(Not that I'm about to start spending more for a shirt than I've ever spent on a suit but, as I say, I'm curious.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I'm not shooting, but I am curious.

Do you think it would be possible to describe in print, without my being there to examine the item, what the differences might be between what I would ordinarily spend on a dress shirt ($20-30 at Lands End, assuming I don't find them on sale) and what I would get for $250 or $500?

(Not that I'm about to start spending more for a shirt than I've ever spent on a suit but, as I say, I'm curious.)
For $250 I get MTM shirts that fit me exactly how I like them (very narrow on waist and body with small armholes and extra long sleeves), and with medium spread collars and large 3-button cuffs that I really like. The quality of the fabric seems to be a bit better as they last longer than a couple of the cheaper ones I bought off the rack when I was younger. As for Lands End, I can't comment specifically bc I've never owned one.
 

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And that is why there are so many options for us to choose from at varying price points. I have owned shirts that I bought from Paul Frederick, J. Crew, Banana Republic, LE, Macy's, all the way up to Borrelli, Kiton, Brioni, and Bespoke.

The lower end shirts to me don't have the resiliency or fit. The quality of the fabric is important as is the fit. The selection is also important. Some people love oxford cloth and will always wear that type of shirt no matter what. For me I almost always go for fit over anything else. If a shirt doesn't fit properly I won't buy it. Fabric quality and selection is next. Collar type and cuff treatment are also important . It is almost impossible to find all of these things in one shirt.

I don't think you can get MTM shirts for $100. It is going to cost much more for a good quality MTM shirt. There are places that will make them but unless you know of a good one for sure, you may wind up wasting your time as well as your money. $200+ or - is probably the number for a good quality custom shirt. Some people like Kiton, Borrelli etc. you can find these on sale for usually 50% off.$225-$250. The fabrics are beautiful and the fit for me is perfect.
 

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I know that usually to get a high quality shirt that fits well you have to spend a certain minimum amount of money. Anything less and the differences between that and something that costs more will be noticeable. However, beyond a certain point, the incremental value isn' there. For example, where I live and shop, the differences between a $50 RTW shirt and a $250 shirt (whether MTM or high quality RTW altered by a tailor) are quite stark and noticeable. However when you are paying upwards of $600 a shirt, the difference is not as meaningful or noticeable. I know I'm going to have all the bespoke tailors shoot at me and point out my ignorance in not noticing this detail and that detail, and you are right...but sometimes that huge extra expense is not really worth it unless money is no object and you have plenty to burn. I definitely don't and if I get 95% of what I want for 50% of what it costs to get 100% of it, I'll settle for 95%.

OK, shoot at me, I've got my bullet proof vest (in navy blue) on. :icon_smile_big:
You are correct. I've explained this a number of times before. In simplest terms, it may cost 50% more to make a shirt 10% better.

For example, a cheap RTW shirt ($50) can be made in as little as 9 minutes. Giving materials a cost of $0, let's go to the average MTM shirtmaker who requires 90 minutes. The extrapolation is that the MTM shirt should price out at $500. Same 24 parts - 2 sleeves, front, back, collar, cuffs ... and a few more small ones ... but 10 times the labor. You can also assume that the fabric cost will be at least ten times as much. Will the shirt be 10 times better? How could it? If the cheap shirt has 6 stitches per inch, would the MTM have 60? If it did, the cloth would tear.

Go up a step to a real bespoke maker who is spending between four and twelve hours on the shirt. If you do the math you may come up with a $10,000 shirt.

Another factor. Most cheaper shirts are made in factories paying between $1 and $5 (I'm being generous) per hour ... or just paying by the number of pieces finished. The decades of experience required for someone who sews very fine quality shirts merits remuneration between $25,000 and $65,000.
 

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Agreed

However, the 10% makes such a difference - a decent fitting shirt to a perfect shirt.
Personally, I certainly hope so! :icon_smile_wink:
 
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