Hi and welcome. Let's say you're not successful in your quest. Consider then maybe having working buttons and holes added. If it's more of a style thing for you as opposed to function, then you could just have the just first one on each cuff done (cheaper), to casually unbutton or whatever.

 

Hi and welcome. Let's say you're not successful in your quest. Consider then maybe having working buttons and holes added. If it's more of a style thing for you as opposed to function, then you could just have the just first one on each cuff done (cheaper), to casually unbutton or whatever.

Great suggestions, Peak. I like them!

Yes it is only for style. I want to give it that extra, bespoke accent without breaking the bank with an actually tailor-made suit. All of my jackets do have the "mock" surgeon's cuffs with non-function button holes. So it is possible to convert these to working button holes by a qualified tailor??

 

Hi and welcome. Let's say you're not successful in your quest. Consider then maybe having working buttons and holes added. If it's more of a style thing for you as opposed to function, then you could just have the just first one on each cuff done (cheaper), to casually unbutton or whatever.

+1
Most suits won't come with working cuffs so the sleeves can be altered. Sleeve adjustments are the most common on jackets, so it makes sense for the holes to be put in after the alterations are made.

 

So it is possible to convert these to working button holes by a qualified tailor??

Yes, yes it is. Cuffs without functioning buttons are of two kinds. Either a row of buttons is just sewn to the overlap, or they are sewn over a mock button hole stitch. I'm assuming you're not a needle-and-thread guy. If you were, you'd find the second type easier to convert. I have done this myself. It's not magically difficult. I've not done it recently because I decided its not a very important thing to me. Have actually done the reverse tho: stripped all the buttons off, giving it a plain cuff. That procedure is very easy.

 

Many of the offshore tailors offer working buttonholes for a nominal price. I just received an odd jacket with working buttonholes and horn buttons from Ravi. As I recall the working buttonholes were an extra $15 while real horn buttons were $30--which says something about the cost of labor in Thailand.

 

When BB has a 50% off sale, their 1818 Fitzgerald suits can be purchased for under $500 and usually come with unfinished cuffs.

 

I think its more trouble then its worth to add them. Unless you have a very good tailor. I think these days its just expected they wont work. Besides having those work on a $500 suit isn't necessarily going to make it look bespoke. I would put the money you would spend on surgeon cuffs into a better suit and tailoring it to fit. I do however see the allure..."Hey look my buttons work and yours our just sewn on". ; ) That reminds me. Check out this video of Ryan Seacrests stylist drooling over the working cuffs.

 

I have a ratty old brown jacket that I bought in 2004. For forty dollars. At Old Navy. It has working cuffs. Still want that "bespoke accent"?

 

pshaw, try the local mall

I have a ratty old brown jacket that I bought in 2004. For forty dollars. At Old Navy. It has working cuffs. Still want that "bespoke accent"?

Yeah, I was going to say that J. Crew and Banana Republic have been filling this bill for a few years now. Apparently this 'feature' is even more ubiquitous and inexpensive than I was aware.

That cooing by Seacrest's stylist (with the horrifically high gorge) was pretty absurd.

 

Yes it is only for style. I want to give it that extra, bespoke accent without breaking the bank with an actually tailor-made suit. All of my jackets do have the "mock" surgeon's cuffs with non-function button holes. So it is possible to convert these to working button holes by a qualified tailor??

I believe Sean John suits are available at Macy's for approx. $200 offering working button holes.

I contend only YOU should be able to tell the difference between mock surgeon cuffs and functioning button holes. Surely you are not the type of guy to walk around with you buttons unfastened for effect.

If that is your cup of tea, JAB is having a 70% sale on their Sig Gold models. Buy it a size small (so it's slim fitting). It comes ready to be tailored with functioning button holes. You can grab one with free shipping for under $350.

 

I know you said you are not willing to consider online tailors yet, but if that is a price issue, you should consider TaT or Bookster https://www.tweed-jacket.com/ both of which produce made to order slim fitting suits with surgeons cuffs, and they are in your price range. I haven't tried them yet, but Bookster at least is highly regarded on this forum.

 

This thread reminds me of an old coworker. Our store is a bit of a blue-collar operation - good quality stuff but certainly not bespoke. We used to have a part time salesman who had worked at luxury boutiques for years before coming on with us. He wore strictly high end suits, (Oxxford, Brioni and the like). He used to wear his surgeons cuffs with the last two buttons undone, so everyone could see they were functional (in his words, "If you got 'em, flaunt 'em). I can't begin to say how annoying that was.

 

As others have said - just have them added after purchasing.

After all, if you buy a jacket with them already in place, it may be impossible to alter sleeve length (which I think is a more important detail, anyway).

 

Why? What benefit other than bragging does it confer?

It is a point of detail for bespoke and better quality suits but an unecssary frippery at the bottom end. The manufacturer would be better advised to improve basic quality rather than pretend his product is something that it is not.

 

Why? What benefit other than bragging does it confer?

It is a point of detail for bespoke and better quality suits but an unecssary frippery at the bottom end. The manufacturer would be better advised to improve basic quality rather than pretend his product is something that it is not.

+1000

 

Yeah, I was going to say that J. Crew and Banana Republic have been filling this bill for a few years now. Apparently this 'feature' is even more ubiquitous and inexpensive than I was aware.

That cooing by Seacrest's stylist (with the horrifically high gorge) was pretty absurd.

That is an interesting point. I have never noticed this option as not one of my BR sportcoats have that feature for some reason. But it puts the whole idea in a different light, as others have brought out too.

 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! You have provided some great ideas and food for thought.

I guess this is where I'm coming from with this...

I am in my 20's but have worn suits since I was knee high to a grasshopper. When I was younger, my parents would take me to department store outlets and pick up suits in the $400-600 range for $100. But when I got a little older, the allure of stores like Express and Banana Republic had me thinking this was the best thing around. It wasn't until recently that I found my current wardrobe was leaving me with much to be desired.

I have to admit it has never been a big issue, but there have been times I have wondered, "Why don't they make these with actually button holes. Seems like they are cutting corners." In fact it wasn't until a few days ago (around the time that I found this site) that I even knew you could get a suit with such a feature. At this point I think it's like that one little feature in a vehicle that you really want, but like that analogy, once you have it, it won't mean much to you over time.

Where I'm at now...
I have been going light on the weights and am training for a marathon. Needless to say, my entire suit wardrobe no longer fits, nor is it quite my style anymore. The only thing I can salvage are my socks. Over the weekend I ordered a Kenneth Cole NY black suit that I picked up online for $180 (now looking for some descent shoes). I feel this KC suit will be an upgrade from my previous suits, and an OK suit for someone having to start from scratch.

But I do wear a suit 2-3 days a week (or about 4-8 hrs/wk) and do not want to wear the same black suit. At the same time, I do not want to go all out and buy 3 or 4 $1000+ suits (esp. if my weight fluctuates for some reason, injury, etc)... Maybe over time I will, and when I have a better idea of what I really like in the long run through experience.

For the topic at hand, I feel the Benjamin (fully canvassed, working surgeon's cuffs, etc) would be a nice upgrade to the KC suit I will have soon (Maybe I am wrong. Does anyone think spending $320 more for a Benjamin is a good idea???) and at the same time, help fill the empty place in my closet at a reasonable price. Then as I learn what is really important to me in a suit, I can go all out for those few really special purchases.

I am also considering an M Valentino (despite the fact it does not have working surgeon's cuffs) but not sure Jeff currently has my size in the one I'm looking at. And then for a little more I can have the Benjamin but maybe the quality-to-higher price ratio isn't worth it. I like the style for the most part on TaT (if I had them tone it down just a tad) but I'm not comfortable with the possibility that I may be stuck with a suit that is not wearable.

Many here have also taught me that good deals can be found from store sales of places I do not usually consider, as well as on Ebay and online. So I will keep my eyes open but in the mean time I need work on my suit deficiency LOL. Looks like I have some pondering to do...

Thanks again for all of your help!
Smash

 

Word of warning. Please make sure your Kenneth Cole is 100% wool if it is polyester blend then send it back. Other then that Kenneth Cole is ok. I find the arms of their jackets to run a little baggy so I stay away from them. For discount of the rack I really recommend Joseph Abboud. They alway seem to have nicer fabric and a more european cut. Hope this helps.

 

This thread reminds me of an old coworker. Our store is a bit of a blue-collar operation - good quality stuff but certainly not bespoke. We used to have a part time salesman who had worked at luxury boutiques for years before coming on with us. He wore strictly high end suits, (Oxxford, Brioni and the like). He used to wear his surgeons cuffs with the last two buttons undone, so everyone could see they were functional (in his words, "If you got 'em, flaunt 'em). I can't begin to say how annoying that was.

+1
When I was in the Marine Corps, a conversation once came up about the perception of Marines being cocky. A Staff Sergeant made the comment that he wasn't cocky, he was confident. When asked what the difference was, he replied "The cocky guy is going to spend the whole night telling you how great he is. The confident guy doesn't need to."

 

Surgeon's cuffs, at one time, meant you were wearing "bespoke" clothing. With much of the clothing sold today tailored off shore, the extra cost incurred in making open button holes is counted in chump change. You can find them in very cheap, poorly tailored clothing. As a number of members have suggested, it is unusual to not need the sleeve adjusted when one purchase a jacket/suit. The resultant added cost to alter sleeve that have open button holes exceeds what it will cost one to add open button holes to a jacket that does not have them. ( Lots of people from coat to coast send us jackets to have us add open button holes . We make them by hand!) It is always desirable to purchase from a store where you can try the garment on than sight unseen from any source. If you wait for end of season promotions you will be able to purchase quality clothing within your budget.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/

 

Word of warning. Please make sure your Kenneth Cole is 100% wool if it is polyester blend then send it back. Other then that Kenneth Cole is ok. I find the arms of their jackets to run a little baggy so I stay away from them. For discount of the rack I really recommend Joseph Abboud. They alway seem to have nicer fabric and a more european cut. Hope this helps.

Hi Trouble,

Thanks for the tips. I looked at Nordstrom's yesterday and they only had 3 suits in 36S - 2 Hugo Boss and 1 Abboud. The Abboud was a great, slimmer fit, higher quality and better price than the Hugo Boss all the way around. I was not too crazy about the fabric color of the suit they had, but now I will look regularly at different selections of Abboud's while I'm out and about in hopes to find a good deal.

The KC is 100% wool which was one reason why I jumped on it, but I will probably be sending it back as I ordered a MV from Jeff that arrived. The KC will arrive tomorrow, so I'll be able to compare the two, but I love the MV!!! And like what most said, the non-functional surgeon's cuffs do not bother me one bit.

If people would like me too, and if I can make time during the busy week, I can try to post a review of the suit I end up keeping (most likely the MV:wink2 before and after tailor alterations.

I was also in the market for new shoes under $200. I looked at Johnston & Murphy's, Allen Edmonds, and Cole Haans. I have an "A" width and the cole haan's were the only shoe that would suit me in that price range with something I liked. I found them at a local department store for $70 + tax. Not the best shoe I admit, but not bad for the price I picked them up for I think:cool2:. Here they are: https://www.zappos.com/cole-haan-calhoun-black

 

If you liked those Joseph Abbouds, you are going to love this https://www.overstock.com/Clothing-Shoes/Suits/Joseph-Abboud,/brand,/3414/cat.html

 

If you liked those Joseph Abbouds, you are going to love this https://www.overstock.com/Clothing-Shoes/Suits/Joseph-Abboud,/brand,/3414/cat.html

Thanks for sharing!

Question: When a suit says 100% wool but does not give a "super rating" what does that tell you about the fabric?

 

That doesn't necessarily tell you anything. First, there's no requirement that super numbers be used if they apply. There's no "super number" police out there making merchants display the super number like some health department inspection certificate in a fast food joint.

Second, in light of the absurd numbers claimed for some fabrics (suits claiming super 150's for less than $600?), an honest merchant may feel that espousing a super 100's suit would make it look bad by comparisson. In fact, there are some wonderful super 100 fabrics. And there are some truly great fabrics that have no super number at all.

Super numbers only refer to the diameter of fibres in the wool. They tell you nothing about the other parameters of quality, such as the length of the fibers, their strength, how they were woven and milled, etc. There are lots of threads on AAAC about the perils of focusing on a super number.

All that said, I haven't even looked at the suit under discussion, and don't offer any opinion at all about whether it is well made, tasteful, etc. I'm only addressing your question about fabric.

 

That doesn't necessarily tell you anything. First, there's no requirement that super numbers be used if they apply. There's no "super number" police out there making merchants display the super number like some health department inspection certificate in a fast food joint.

Second, in light of the absurd numbers claimed for some fabrics (suits claiming super 150's for less than $600?), an honest merchant may feel that espousing a super 100's suit would make it look bad by comparisson. In fact, there are some wonderful super 100 fabrics. And there are some truly great fabrics that have no super number at all.

Super numbers only refer to the diameter of fibres in the wool. They tell you nothing about the other parameters of quality, such as the length of the fibers, their strength, how they were woven and milled, etc. There are lots of threads on AAAC about the perils of focusing on a super number.

All that said, I haven't even looked at the suit under discussion, and don't offer any opinion at all about whether it is well made, tasteful, etc. I'm only addressing your question about fabric.

Thanks CuffDaddy,

That answers my question quite well. Although I figured there were other important factors to consider, I did not know if that was a bad thing for that information to be missing or not. Thanks again