[StephenRG]

I just saw this on a FB post about a run of Aldens on the Barrie last, and not for the first time it struck me as absolutely idiotic. If you know that someone with size 10 feet should order a 9 1/2 in a particular last, why don't you just re-number your shoes in that last?

 

[fishertw]

I just saw this on a FB post about a run of Aldens on the Barrie last, and not for the first time it struck me as absolutely idiotic. If you know that someone with size 10 feet should order a 9 1/2 in a particular last, why don't you just re-number your shoes in that last?

I've always wondered the same thing. Maybe it's a bit of "in the know" snobbery.

 

[EclecticSr.]

I just saw this on a FB post about a run of Aldens on the Barrie last, and not for the first time it struck me as absolutely idiotic. If you know that someone with size 10 feet should order a 9 1/2 in a particular last, why don't you just re-number your shoes in that last?

This idiocy doesn't stop at shoes.

 

[Dhaller]

Maybe it's a clever strategy to get people talking about their shoes online.

I often wondered if that's why Red Wings "Iron Ranger" boots are sized a full-size off, just because that's the big thing people go ON and ON about in forums.

"Dude, order it a size smaller, at least."
- "Why?"
"Because it's Red Wings and that's cool. Duh."

Insider information!

DH

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Maybe it's a clever strategy to get people talking about their shoes online.

I often wondered if that's why Red Wings "Iron Ranger" boots are sized a full-size off, just because that's the big thing people go ON and ON about in forums.

"Dude, order it a size smaller, at least."
- "Why?"
"Because it's Red Wings and that's cool. Duh."

Insider information!

DH

Well the effect it had on me was to inject enough concern to decide not to buy until and unless I could try them on, or at least that is my current stance.

 

[215339]

DWFII on SF had a good post about shoe lengths and widths

It's not uncommon for retailers to play fast and loose with customers perceptions about sizes. The result is that it is widely believed...almost as 'given wisdom' that sizes--lengths and widths..are casually interchangeable.

The foot has some fundamental structure that cannot be changed and which the owner of said foot ignores at his own peril.

Overall foot length is nearly the least of these simply because in a decently made shoe, the shoe always embodies some clearance between the length of the foot and the length of the shoe, inside the shoe. Traditionally for a med. round toe shoe , three full sizes was the standard clearance...each size being one-third of an inch.

That said, the foot and the actual "natural size" can almost be defined by the way the bones are arranged in the arch (midfoot)--from the back of the heel to the middle of the medial ball joint. Because this structure is comprised of bones and ligaments and because it is an arch, it is fairly important that it not be dismissed or regarded cavalierly. To support the foot and transfer the weight of the body, the arch must be fairly rigid and coherent.To the extent that the arch is ignored dismissed that supporting function is impaired and sometimes altered so as to be less effective than it "naturally" was.

It could fairly and accurately be said that the arch is the most important structure / part of the foot. When the arch doesn't do its job walking is uncomfortable or even impossible.

Shoes are made on lasts. Lasts are entirely rigid and unalterable. There is no equivocation about the length of the shoe which will be made on that last nor any question of the dimensions of the arch nor of the measurements from the back of the heel to the medial ball joint. If a last is designated 9D, for instance (or whatever European equivalent), that designation strictly specifies what the interior dimensions fo the last will be and where the medial ball joints should 'socket.'

Because the last is 'static' there is really no other interpretation.

The reason people think that they can fudge a size up or down or a width narrower / wider, is several-fold: The flesh--muscles and fat--allow some padding that eases discomfort (although may not ameliorate changes in foot structure over time).

And esp. as it applies to these misconceptions, manufacturers and shoe salesman neither agree on what actually constitutes (measurements, dimensions, etc.) a 9D, for instance, nor do they care very much one way or the other if the last they use meets a standard or not. It's caveat emptor to the nth degree in the case of shoes--the customer will fit himself and 50% of fit is in the mind of the buyer. It's not the responsibility of either the manufacurer or the salesman to ensure that you are fit or more importantly fit correctly and healthily.

Just because you can walk out of a store with no pinches doesn't mean that you have a good fit.

 

[smmrfld]

Anyone looking for definitive information about Alden fit, sizing, models, or anything else would be well-served by checking out the SF Alden thread. Including countless posts confirming the good advice to size down with Barrie.

 

[challer]

Wait’ll ya hear how Weston handles things.

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Just glad I actually know how Aberdeen and Van lasts fit!

 

[eagle2250]

Alden's.....based on the numbers in my collection, they must be my second favorite brand of shoe. And frankly I have never seen the quandry of dropping down a half size for designs made on their Barrie last as an insurmountable challenge. To my mind and in my experience, they make an incredibly fine pair of footwear!

 

[Andy]

Just checked in with a professional with some insight into Alden sizing and he says:

When a last is originally created, an artisan shapes a wood last by hand. Especially older lasts like Barrie. Once a sample last is created in a size 8D for example it is text fitted and reworked to approximate the size 8. Then, it is graded using a standardized system for all sizes/widths. Sometimes the last maker or company finds out later the last fits a 7 1/2D more accurately.

This comes after making a major investment in lasts to make thousands of pair. Technology has fixed this issue and for newer lasts, this is not the issue. Computer scanning and better standardization creates more standardized fit by last. Even then, this is still part artistry and part science.

The wild card is there are so many foot shapes. Customers need to have their foot measure by a pro and try several sizes to find the perfect fit.

And this info may be helpful:

Fitting Tips For ALDEN SHOES

The key to fitting Alden shoes is the knowledge that Alden uses different "lasts". The last is the form, in the shape of a foot, which the leather is stretched over to make the shoe. Lasts are made in different shapes. Some lasts have broad, round toe areas (toe box), and some lasts have more narrow and pointed toe boxes.

Because of the different last shapes, the various Alden shoe models fit differently, and vary in size. Some models fit approximately 1/2 size larger than others.

The most popular Alden lasts, and their relative sizes compared to usual U.S. shoe sizes are:

Leydon last - fits approximately like a standard US size
Plaza last - slightly longer than regular U.S. size
Aberdeen last - slightly longer than regular U.S. size
Van last - 1/4 to 1/2 size larger than regular U.S. size
Barrie last - about 1/2 size larger than regular U.S. size (U.S. size 10 = Barrie last size 9 1/2)
Trubalance last - about 1/2 size larger than regular U.S. size (U.S. size 10 = Trubalance size 9 1/2)
Modified last - at least 1/2 size larger than regular U.S. size (U.S. size 10 = Modified last size 9 1/2)

Each Alden shoe is marked inside with its model number and size. The model number is usually a three or four digit number such as 986, or 9901, etc...

 

[Guest]

The OP's point is well made, as I've found Alden's sizing and lasts to be the most idiosyncratic of any make I've sampled. But that granted, according to Justin Fitzpatrick, there is no uniformity of sizing across all various brands, and that one make's size 9 1/2 may be another's 10. And as suggested, this is also affected by last shape, but also overall volume, and the critical differences in length from the heel to ball of the foot. And the same holds true for width as well as length with direct comparisons of width not necessarily be comparable across makes. And this holds also holds true in UK sizing, where one makes F fitment may be medium, but a wide in a different make.

I've yet to find a comfortable fit in any Alden shoe. For example, the Leydon last cited as nominally a standard U.S. size is one I purchased in my normal U.S. size, but which has proved unwearable, and is larger than any previous U.S. make ever purchased in that size. And also much larger than would be my normal UK equivalent size.

I personally suspect that Alden's idiosyncratic sizing is in part a tactic in their desire to price control, making it much more difficult for wearers to cross shop with other makes.

 

[challer]

The trick I think is to shop by last, not by size alone, and once you have found the right last for you, get the majority of your shoes in that last. The Carmina MTO program has worked perfectly for me because I can get anything - leather, style, etc, in the rain last which will always fit sight unseen.

 

[richard warren]

I will explain. Some time ago, there was a tremendous effort towards standardization in industry, including the shoe business. This resulted in, well, standard to which Alden adheres to this day. These standards included sizing by length in two aspects, the arch length and the total length, as you can see on the Brannock device website, with arch length being the more important of the two, generally.

Alden was traditionally a maker not of sporty or fashionable shoes, but of comfortable shoes, such that at a particular arch length an Alden last would give the wearer more toe room than some other brands.

This led people who do not understand the system (a surprising number of people) to believe they should wear Aldens in a size that is 1/2 smaller than the size they should really be wearing, according to their arch size. Such misunderstanding was duly incorporated into the “rules” of the internet cognoscenti. At the same time, “sleek” shoes became fashionable, possibly as part of a larger trend of the feminization of the formerly masculine elements of the population, such that some men apparently think having a “smaller” nominal shoe size is preferable (a bit or irrationality they share with many women I have known).

Not so long ago, Alden resisted, and I recall reading an interview with one of its executives who decried the practice of sizing down.

Apparently, they have given up.

Is it idiocy to bow to the ignorance and vanity of one’s customers?

The folks at Apple don’t think so.

 

[215339]

At the same time, "sleek" shoes became fashionable, possibly as part of a larger trend of the feminization of the formerly masculine elements of the population, such that some men apparently think having a "smaller" nominal shoe size is preferable (a bit or irrationality they share with many women I have known).

What a weird, cringeworthy take on this.

 

[smmrfld]

I will explain. Some time ago, there was a tremendous effort towards standardization in industry, including the shoe business. This resulted in, well, standard to which Alden adheres to this day. These standards included sizing by length in two aspects, the arch length and the total length, as you can see on the Brannock device website, with arch length being the more important of the two, generally.

Alden was traditionally a maker not of sporty or fashionable shoes, but of comfortable shoes, such that at a particular arch length an Alden last would give the wearer more toe room than some other brands.

This led people who do not understand the system (a surprising number of people) to believe they should wear Aldens in a size that is 1/2 smaller than the size they should really be wearing, according to their arch size. Such misunderstanding was duly incorporated into the "rules" of the internet cognoscenti. At the same time, "sleek" shoes became fashionable, possibly as part of a larger trend of the feminization of the formerly masculine elements of the population, such that some men apparently think having a "smaller" nominal shoe size is preferable (a bit or irrationality they share with many women I have known).

Not so long ago, Alden resisted, and I recall reading an interview with one of its executives who decried the practice of sizing down.

Apparently, they have given up.

Is it idiocy to bow to the ignorance and vanity of one's customers?

The folks at Apple don't think so.

This has to be the oddest, most inaccurate post I've read on this site in a while. So lessee...should I believe a random poster here who is clearly misinformed, or should I believe my own experience with about three dozen Barrie-lasted pair of Aldens and literally hundreds of posts on the Styleforum Alden thread? I think I know the answer. Oh, and your misogyny doesn't help your credibility.

 

[Jovan]

At the same time, "sleek" shoes became fashionable, possibly as part of a larger trend of the feminization of the formerly masculine elements of the population, such that some men apparently think having a "smaller" nominal shoe size is preferable (a bit or irrationality they share with many women I have known).

I must admit I don't quite understand the logic here, let alone the need to imply that anything feminine is necessarily bad. Men's shoes with sleeker lasts have been a thing for centuries, particularly throughout Europe. Maybe they've become fashionable in North America in the last decade or so, but that's about it.

 

[smmrfld]

I must admit I don't quite understand the logic here, let alone the need to imply that anything feminine is necessarily bad. Men's shoes with sleeker lasts have been a thing for centuries, particularly throughout Europe. Maybe they've become fashionable in North America in the last decade or so, but that's about it.

Even a cursory search of images of men's shoes from the early 1900s proves his inaccuracy. His posts have a recurring theme of misogyny and an obsession with "feminization" of males. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Buffalo]

I have several Alden barrie last shoes in my size 8.5 D and have never found the need to size down. Just don't get it as they seem true to size to me.

 

[DG123]

Some feet are easier to fit that others. Some customers are more particular about fit than others.
The extra eyelets/laces of boots may help a customers get a better fit than low top footwear can provide.