[medhat]

Without any other justification other than it was on a great sale, I made a holiday purchase for myself over the holidays and picked up my third tuxedo, as if one wasn't enough. I currently average < one wearing/year, and last I checked I don't see group events picking up anytime soon, but it's a shawl collar midnight blue I've been eyeing for ages, and as mentioned, the price was great. But this post is about shoes.

Typically I've worn Allen Edmonds Park Avenues with formalwear (they're calfskin, and I prefer the lustre vs patent), but somehow I lost them (who loses shoes?) about a year ago, so need a replacement. But rather than get another pair of same or similar captoe oxfords, I'm wondering what the group's opinion is about a wholecut instead. For whatever reason I've always steered clear of a opera pump, and am still not inclined to go that way. Thanks in advance for opinions and thoughts.

 

[StephenRG]

But rather than get another pair of same or similar captoe oxfords, I'm wondering what the group's opinion is about a wholecut instead. For whatever reason I've always steered clear of a opera pump, and am still not inclined to go that way. Thanks in advance for opinions and thoughts.

I would regard a wholecut as preferable to a captoe for that purpose.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I would regard a wholecut as preferable to a captoe for that purpose.

Agree. Unless you have massive feet.

 

[Faux Brummell]

Let’s see the tuxedo! 🥳

 

[Matt S]

The black calf whole-cut is the modern black tie shoe. Daniel Craig’s Janes Bond may have something to do with it. The cap-toe oxford is more traditional for black tie, albeit in patent leather, but calf is fine too. I’m not a fan of most Allen Edmonds shoes for black toe because I find the 360-degree welt too clunky for black tie. It makes any shoe look too informal for it IMO. Despite what the internet says, plain-toe oxfords and opera pumps are not the only traditional black tie options. 2-eyelet derbies and slippers are also great choices.

 

[Mute]

Definitely take a whole cut over a captoe. I would only choose a captoe for black tie wear if it's in patent leather.

 

[Dhaller]

I would prefer a whole cut.

Sid Mashburn in Atlanta has paired a tux with black Chelsea boots (same principle as the whole cut: a continuous upper.)

DH

 

[medhat]

The black calf whole-cut is the modern black tie shoe. Daniel Craig's Janes Bond may have something to do with it. The cap-toe oxford is more traditional for black tie, albeit in patent leather, but calf is fine too. I'm not a fan of most Allen Edmonds shoes for black toe because I find the 360-degree welt too clunky for black tie. It makes any shoe look too informal for it IMO. Despite what the internet says, plain-toe oxfords and opera pumps are not the only traditional black tie options. 2-eyelet derbies and slippers are also great choices.

Thanks @Matt S ! Looking thru your blog, you mention that a plain toe oxford would do as well. I'm a bit stuck in making the transition from a cap toe to a wholecut, which is where the plain toe comes in. I think for non-formalwear occasions I'm much more likely to wear the plain toe, whereas with a wholecut they'd almost certainly be reserved just for wear with black tie. Thoughts and thanks again.

 

[Matt S]

Thanks @Matt S ! Looking thru your blog, you mention that a plain toe oxford would do as well. I'm a bit stuck in making the transition from a cap toe to a wholecut, which is where the plain toe comes in. I think for non-formalwear occasions I'm much more likely to wear the plain toe, whereas with a wholecut they'd almost certainly be reserved just for wear with black tie. Thoughts and thanks again.

Wholecuts are more traditionally worn with a suit than with a dinner suit, so there's no reason to feel that you can't wear them with a suit or blue blazer and grey flannels. The plain-toe oxford, on the other hand, is most often found only in black patent leather for evening wear. I do have a pair in calf from AE, but it's not a common style. It's the most classic evening shoe, traditionally appropriate for both black tie and white tie. Some older guides I've seen reserve that shoe for white tie and suggest a patent cap-toe oxford for black tie. There are many traditionally appropriate options for black tie shoes, more than what is commonly stated in Alan Flusser's books or on the internet, but as you stray from those usually recommended options it's easier to go wrong. Honestly, anything in black with a plain toe or cap toe on an elegant last will work. Just use your judgement.

 

[Tim Correll]

I would wear black patent leather whole cut court shoes with a black grosgrain silk pinched bow with a morning suit and white tie and tails and black patent leather plain toe oxfords with black grosgrain silk wide laces with a dinner suit where the coat and trousers match each other and with a black lounge suit. For a contrasting dinner coat and formal trousers, I would wear black patent leather plain toe derbies with black grosgrain silk wide laces.

 

[Matt S]

I would wear black patent leather whole cut court shoes with a black grosgrain silk pinched bow with a morning suit and white tie and tails and black patent leather plain toe oxfords with black grosgrain silk wide laces with a dinner suit where the coat and trousers match each other and with a black lounge suit. For a contrasting dinner coat and formal trousers, I would wear black patent leather plain toe derbies with black grosgrain silk wide laces.

For morning dress you should not wear patent leather. Patent leather is for evening wear. Your shoes should be oxfords or, for a more old-fashioned look, balmoral boots. The dressier derbys would do nicely as well.

 

[Tim Correll]

For morning dress you should not wear patent leather. Patent leather is for evening wear. Your shoes should be oxfords or, for a more old-fashioned look, balmoral boots. The dressier derbys would do nicely as well.

In that case, I would wear black smooth calfskin plain toe oxfords with cotton, cotton/linen blend or linen thin laces with a black lounge suit and a morning suit.

 

[Matt S]

In that case, I would wear black smooth calfskin plain toe oxfords with cotton, cotton/linen blend or linen thin laces with a black lounge suit and a morning suit.

While these shoes would be correct, plain-toe oxfords are not the most traditional shoe for morning dress (particularly since the style was never common outside of patent leather for evening wear). The most traditional toe style for oxfords to wear with morning dress is a stitched cap-toe or a quarter brogue. For a more modern alternative, you could also wear wholecuts, preferably without a toe medallion.

 

[Tim Correll]

While these shoes would be correct, plain-toe oxfords are not the most traditional shoe for morning dress (particularly since the style was never common outside of patent leather for evening wear). The most traditional toe style for oxfords to wear with morning dress is a stitched cap-toe or a quarter brogue. For a more modern alternative, you could also wear wholecuts, preferably without a toe medallion.

In that case, I would wear black smooth calfskin non brogue cap toe oxfords with a black lounge suit and a morning suit.

 

[medhat]

Thanks everyone! Pulled the trigger on F2 AE Carlyle plain-toe oxfords. I like the elongated shape, which I find elegant, and while it's arguably slightly more detailed than a wholecut I think it would have broader application than just for formalwear. On an aside, I can't seem to find the defect that makes them F2s, so that's a good thing. They need a nice polish and shine and they'll be perfect.

 

[DCR]

Thanks everyone! Pulled the trigger on F2 AE Carlyle plain-toe oxfords. I like the elongated shape, which I find elegant, and while it's arguably slightly more detailed than a wholecut I think it would have broader application than just for formalwear. On an aside, I can't seem to find the defect that makes them F2s, so that's a good thing. They need a nice polish and shine and they'll be perfect.

This is what I wear with my tuxedo and I find it works well in addition to being very comfortable. Enjoy.