[Mannix]

The guy at Mall of Ameica? Yeah- he's one of the best in town.

He's good, and quite thorough.

 

[welldressedfellow]

I had a major reply prepared, but I decided that I shall no longer feed you.

Good point. In fact, all of your points are good. Americans are very good, and always have been, at "looking the other way." Witness slavery. Witness the massacre of the native Americans. Witness the legions of homeless sleeping on steam grates in every major American city. Witness sweat shops and factory assembly lines. Witness cubicles!

And now witness the 55+ million people without health insurance of any kind--and no doubt the shoe shine is one of them--while the rest simply go along blithely, pretending it is not their concern.

I commend your courage to say "no, that is not right."

However, let's be honest: It is likely that many of the clothes you are wearing right now are the result of a lot of labor that you would consider equally degrading. You just don't witness it.

 

[dc_bureaucrat]

Just like anybody who does a great job in their service profession (whether it's a waiter, a pizza-boy, a bank-teller, or a shoe-shiner), we should all give them our business when we need it, and we should let them know how much we appreciate their work while treating them respectfully and kindly, and, if it's appropriate, tip generously.

 

[ChicagoMediaMan-27]

I probably get asked daily by a homeless guy if I need my shoes shined, but I prefer to do it myself.

 

[PatentLawyerNYC]

I just love getting my shoes shined. There's a guy at Nordstrom's at Garden State Plaza who is a fanatic! Best shoe shines I have had in my life. He only charges $3.00 or so, but I always tip him handsomely because he puts so much effort into it.

It's also fun because he happens to so enthusiastic about shoes, and is a particular fan of Santoni (as am I).

 

[Relayer]

I used to sell shoes (and I was good at it). It was way back when the salesman would sit on a little stool and measure the foot, get the shoe, assist in putting on the shoe, and check the fit, etc. This put me at the feet of my customers, very similar to a shoeshine.

I never felt inferior, shamed, or debased in any way. False pride be damned. That's all in your head. Similar to a shoe shine, I provided a service and human anatomy determined where and in what position the work was most logically done.

 

[NukeMeSlowly]

I just love getting my shoes shined. There's a guy at Nordstrom's at Garden State Plaza who is a fanatic! Best shoe shines I have had in my life. He only charges $3.00 or so, but I always tip him handsomely because he puts so much effort into it.

It's also fun because he happens to so enthusiastic about shoes, and is a particular fan of Santoni (as am I).

Is he European and speak in a falsetto? If so, he does truly do a marvelous job shining shoes. When I lived nearby years ago the charge was $1.50 but I would always give him at least a fiver. Great guy.

 

[PatentLawyerNYC]

Is he European and speak in a falsetto? If so, he does truly do a marvelous job shining shoes. When I lived nearby years ago the charge was $1.50 but I would always give him at least a fiver. Great guy.

He is Portugese, and come to think of it, has a bit of a higher-pitched voice. For me, the best shoe shine guy ever. And always in a good mood, too. :icon_smile_big:

 

[Bog]

The idea of a shoe shine boy--or man, or whatever--is an offense to my sense of democracy.

I'm just not comfortable with watching someone stoop while I sit.

Because you know deep inside you don't deserve to be stooped to?

 

[Mercrutio]

In my estimation none of us deserve to be "stooped to"

Because you know deep inside you don't deserve to be stooped to?

And on what basis do you feel you deserved to be stooped to? It's simply not proper for you to say it outright, is it?

 

[minnesotamoon]

The guy at Mall of Ameica? Yeah- he's one of the best in town.

Correct, and I couldn't believe how cheap it was compared to others around town. I have had my some other shoes done at an unnamed place in Wayzata and was not impressed by any means with the cost being considerably more.

 

[lab1dobie]

If the man asks if I need a shine and my shoes need attention I will take him up on the offer, especially if I've seen he has a lot of customers and he does a good job. The man is providing a service and doing honest work and I am more than happy to help him ply his trade and give him a generous tip! If I can help him put food on his table and keep a roof over his head I don't give a rats what some people think about it!!

 

[CuffDaddy]

I don't understand the objections to using them on class-consciousness grounds at all. The shoe shine guy would rather have the $10 or whatever than not be bending at your feet... otherwise, he wouldn't be offering to do it. If you'd rather have shiny shoes than $10 (or whatever), take him up on the offer.

And don't kid yourself. We are ALL servants.

 

[vinliny]

There's a man at the Nordstroms on Long Island, NY, too. I've been meaning to try him. Maybe now I will.

 

[PatentLawyerNYC]

CuffDaddy gets it.

And don't kid yourself. We are ALL servants.

Ha! You couldn't be more correct. My firm may bill me out at $500/hr (and I'm just an associate!), but I am no more than a servant to my clients. My work just happens to be litigating patents. If a client says "jump," I ask "how high"!!! :icon_smile_big:

 

[mt_spiffy]

Correct, and I couldn't believe how cheap it was compared to others around town. I have had my some other shoes done at an unnamed place in Wayzata and was not impressed by any means with the cost being considerably more.

I'll have to check it out next time I am at MOA.

I've gone for a shoeshine once, at a Christian conference where it was complimentary. If course they accepted tips. I found that, largely due to the fact that the shoes remained on my feet, he was able to do a more thorough job more quickly than me on my kitchen table. I would go more often, however I cant afford to pay for something consistently that I can do myself for free.

 

[Chi]

I am a member of the 316 Club in Chicago. Every two weeks I go and get my hair cut, shoes shined, a couple of beers, and a mini manicure (all are included in my annual membership fee). I love every minute of it.

Mercrutio - you need to get off your high horse. Why would you feel that the person shining your shoes is debasing himself??? Do you feel the same way about people that mow lawns or plow snow? They are earning a living and most likely enjoying what they do. They would do something else if they didn't like their jobs. I am happy to help them earn an honest living by paying them for the service they provide.

 

[Mercrutio]

Your Comment Seems to Me a Misunderstanding

I am a member of the 316 Club in Chicago. Every two weeks I go and get my hair cut, shoes shined, a couple of beers, and a mini manicure (all are included in my annual membership fee). I love every minute of it.

Mercrutio - you need to get off your high horse. Why would you feel that the person shining your shoes is debasing himself??? Do you feel the same way about people that mow lawns or plow snow? They are earning a living and most likely enjoying what they do. They would do something else if they didn't like their jobs. I am happy to help them earn an honest living by paying them for the service they provide.

Perhaps I haven't expressed myself clearly, or perhaps you haven't thought much about the distinction I made earlier in this thread between jobs that put people in uncomfortable/subservient physical positions because that's the only way they can be done, and jobs, like shoeshining, that put people in those uncomfortable/subservient positions because, well, those uncomfortable/subservient positions are the very essence of the job itself.

I don't mean to come off as if I am on a high horse. I just wrote about what I don't like--I certainly don't care to judge what hardworking people do to make a living. Life is difficult. People do what they can, and when they can do better, well, they do that.

To speak directly to your post: I don't think that someone who mows lawns or plows snow debases himself. I don't, in fact, think that people who shine shoes debase themselves. I do think that I would be debasing someone, however, if I asked them to get on their knees and shine my shoes while I read the paper, or talked on my cell phone (which I've observed people doing innumerable times while receiving a shine), or even while I tried to make friendly banter with the guy about baseball, his kids, or shoe care, or whatever. It doesn't matter to me that they like it, earn money from it, etc. You can pay people to do lots of things that are undignified, and a lot of people even like to be undignified, especially if they are getting paid for it. But that doesn't mean that your necessarily can say that you are not debasing that person--an indignity is an indignity, regardless of whether the person suffering sees it. Put it this way: would you feel socially comfortable working as a shoeshine yourself?

Let me put this in some fairly crude terms, minus the pungent language: have you ever wondered why some women (or men, depending on one's preferences) refuse to engage in "intimate contact" that involves certain positions or activities? I mean, it's only bending this way or that, or kneeling this way or that, etc.? What's the big deal, right? Well, they don't like these acts or positions because those acts or positions are inherently debasing or undignified--and if they are not debasing or undignified (in that they are done with consent, even pleasure, or whatever), then they do at least speak of a unequal power dynamic, which, of course, is why many people enjoy those very positions and activities. Some people like master-slave; dominant-submissive dichotomies. I don't. Because shoe shining requires people to assume unnecessarily a subservient position that speaks of this kind of power inequality, I refuse to engage in it, regardless of whether the shoe shiner or whomever else feels good about it. I am just not into "inequality." It doesn't make me happy.

You might not see the analogy that I've written about here. I admit, there is a long way to go from bedroom conduct to shoeshining, but I do think that the comparison brings out some apt parallels. If you don't see those parallels, well, that's OK. I am sure you shoe shine guy will be there, and I am sure too that he doesn't mind and you don't mind the practice--fair enough. Enjoy it, I say to you, and to him, I say, enjoy YOUR money. I just can't enjoy it, is all; while my aversion to shoeshines is rooted in some beliefs about fairness (manual work is hard, and there is no reason for us to make it any harder on the people who do it), it's still just a preference.

Hopefully this will clarify for you.

 

[JosephM]

Let me put this in some fairly crude terms, minus the pungent language: have you ever wondered why some women (or men, depending on one's preferences) refuse to engage in "intimate contact" that involves certain positions or activities? I mean, it's only bending this way or that, or kneeling this way or that, etc.? What's the big deal, right? Well, they don't like these acts or positions because those acts or positions are inherently debasing or undignified--and if they are not debasing or undignified (in that they are done with consent, even pleasure, or whatever), then they do at least speak of a unequal power dynamic, which, of course, is why many people enjoy those very positions and activities. Some people like master-slave; dominant-submissive dichotomies. I don't. Because shoe shining requires people to assume unnecessarily a subservient position that speaks of this kind of power inequality, I refuse to engage in it, regardless of whether the shoe shiner or whomever else feels good about it. I am just not into "inequality." It doesn't make me happy.

Let me respond to this with a very simple "Oi."

JM

 

[Mercrutio]

Let me respond to this with a very simple "Oi."

JM

Is that the punk rock or the Jewish "Oi?" Both make sense, albeit differently.