[El Principe]

Hi all

I've got mulling over this topic again since my last visit to my cobbler, who sings the praises of all things Saphir.

In my opinion, shoe cream - i.e., the neutral, colourless conditioner which is used to moisturize and nourish the leather - is probably the most important product for leather care. Without it, leather is liable to dry and crack over time. But does it really matter which one you use?

I've been using Timpson's "Cobbler's Cream" since I started using conditioner, probably because they're visible on the high-street, despite how deplorable the staff tend to be in terms of actual knowledge/resoling abilitiy. https://www.timpson.co.uk/cobblers-shoe-cream-neutral.html

I've never had a problem with it: it adds a glow and a shine to the leather, tending to darken it ever so slightly, but without altering the colour. I've used it on shoes but even watch straps and wallets. I do sometimes see a colour transfer from the shoe to the white cloth I'm using when applying it (depending on the shoe): is this normal?

However, like many products, you cannot actually see the ingredients in it.

But now I remember why I didn't switch to Saphir Renovateur cream once I discovered it as the "premium product" online, years ago: it contains mink oil, and whilst half the internet sings the praises of the product, the other half screams about how mink oil is the devil for smart leather shoes!

Therefore I never bothered to "upgrade" my cream because of the usual conflict of opinions/non-definitive info you find when you look up the topic.

But I guess what I'm asking is: in the end, does it really matter which one you use? I could spend the next week and hours of time (not to mention money) trying to find and test alternatives, but is it even worth it? Thoughts?

Many thanks

 

[smmrfld]

Good for you for seeing through the hype...the less-expensive options such as Kiwi do a great job. As long as you care for your shoes as needed, the actual product doesn’t make a whole lot of difference IME...and I have many pair of shell cordovan and other leathers. Oh...if someone tries to convince you that you need a ferkokteh deer bone instead of a spoon, just humor them and move on.

 

[Flanderian]

Hi all

I've got mulling over this topic again since my last visit to my cobbler, who sings the praises of all things Saphir.

In my opinion, shoe cream - i.e., the neutral, colourless conditioner which is used to moisturize and nourish the leather - is probably the most important product for leather care. Without it, leather is liable to dry and crack over time. But does it really matter which one you use?

I've been using Timpson's "Cobbler's Cream" since I started using conditioner, probably because they're visible on the high-street, despite how deplorable the staff tend to be in terms of actual knowledge/resoling abilitiy. https://www.timpson.co.uk/cobblers-shoe-cream-neutral.html

I've never had a problem with it: it adds a glow and a shine to the leather, tending to darken it ever so slightly, but without altering the colour. I've used it on shoes but even watch straps and wallets. I do sometimes see a colour transfer from the shoe to the white cloth I'm using when applying it (depending on the shoe): is this normal?

However, like many products, you cannot actually see the ingredients in it.

But now I remember why I didn't switch to Saphir Renovateur cream once I discovered it as the "premium product" online, years ago: it contains mink oil, and whilst half the internet sings the praises of the product, the other half screams about how mink oil is the devil for smart leather shoes!

Therefore I never bothered to "upgrade" my cream because of the usual conflict of opinions/non-definitive info you find when you look up the topic.

But I guess what I'm asking is: in the end, does it really matter which one you use? I could spend the next week and hours of time (not to mention money) trying to find and test alternatives, but is it even worth it? Thoughts?

Many thanks

Forgive me for disputing the central premise underlying your questions, but my experience, and all research I've done on the issue, suggests that shoes do not need conditioner. That said, I do use a small amount of colored shoe cream sparingly and very infrequently to impart a bit of shine.

But I have several pair of shoes well beyond 30 years old, and none are cracked or dried out. Last evening I wore a pair of Church suede shoes purchased in 1985, and being suede, I've not done anything but brush them with a suede brush, and they're every bit as supple and in as good repair as 34 years ago.

I originally used Propert's, then when that became unavailable, Meltonian, and when that too was discontinued, Tarrago. None have been very costly, and all have been excellent for my purposes.

If you're using a cream without pigments and you have dye transfer, that means there's almost certainly some solvent in the shoe cream, which is the norm as it allows the pigment in colored creams to penetrate the leather. If it's minimal, and you are otherwise satisfied, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[MNJ83]

It matters to the user.

I do believe some products are overpriced hype, but I also believe some merchants legitimately use better ingredients, better processes, and generally invest much more time crafting their product. It simply depends on what something is worth to you and your personal experience. 25/30 dollars does not seem like an outrageous amount or even a loss to try one single Saphir product and make the decision for yourself. It’s not like you have to buy an entire kit in every single color and spend 500 dollars or sterling pounds.....it’s either going to be overpriced crap or you are going to love it depending on what you value.

 

[SG_67]

I use cream and polish anywhere from 3-4x/year on shoes that are in regular rotation.

Given that frequency, I don’t mind using a more expensive product if I know that the performance and quality are there.

 

[JBierly]

I think it's a fair question. As I have enhanced my shoe collection over the last 7 years I have also upped my polish. Honestly, I can't tell you Saphire is a lot better than an old tin of Esquire brown polish that I own (boy that dates me). I do like the variety in colors offered but I suspect Kiwi polish may have just as much options. Like others noted, the most important thing is to take care of your shoes - quality of product is then a secondary consideration.

 

[El Principe]

Forgive me for disputing the central premise underlying your questions, but my experience, and all research I've done on the issue, suggests that shoes do not need conditioner...

Interesting... though your example is suede, and as I understand it, you don't actually use conditioner on suede, as it would flatten and spoil the nap? So you use sprays instead? (I don't own any fully suede shoes due to my ignorance in its care - only a couple of boots with suede heel patches - the portion that I never touch!)

As you mention, you use coloured creams, and that's another thing - my understanding is that coloured creams also contain nourishment for leather. So you don't necessarily need both colourless conditioner cream + coloured cream. Though you'll often see both recommended in the 3 step shoe care regimen (conditioner - coloured cream - coloured wax).

Thanks for the heads up on the solvent element. I suppose now that you mention it, it's pretty obvious! Though I have shoes I am unlikely to touch with coloured cream, at least not frequently, and which don't really get "dirty" - so I suppose an ultra-gentle cream without a solvent would be ideal...?

I had another chat with my cobbler when picking up my items - he actually said mink oil is better for "oiled leather", which I took to mean the more casual leather types. He actually had 3 different Saphir creams (neutral) in stock, and he said not all of them are mink oil based.

I took that away with me thinking I'd be able to clarify clearly which products are which online, but it still isn't clear to me which has mink oil and which doesn't :fool: So I suppose I'll have to go check the product names carefully on my next visit.

EDIT: I think I've figured out the 3 different Saphir creams: Saphir Renovateur, Saphir Mink Oil, and Saphir Nappa Balm Leather Conditioner.

These 3 come in the little glass bottles. The first two, as far as I am aware, contain mink oil, with the second being pure mink oil. The third, which appears to be the most gentle, I think does not.

This third one might be good for those wanting an ultra-delicate option in their shoe-care inventory.

There is also a fourth cream which comes in a bottle: Saphir lotion, which also contains mink oil.

 

[Fraser Tartan]

Shoe creams, polishes, and some "conditioners" (ones that incorporate wax) use organic solvents such as naphtha ("lighter fluid"), turpentine, and mineral spirits ("Stoddard solvent") to soften the wax so you can apply it. When the solvent evaporates, you then wipe off the now-hardened excess wax and other product, leaving (hopefully!) a nice shine.

These solvents also have the side effect of helping you clean grime off your shoes.

No reason to avoid these but they really aren't good to breath in for health reasons even if the pine scent of turpentine smells kind of nice.

 

[Flanderian]

Interesting... though your example is suede, and as I understand it, you don't actually use conditioner on suede, as it would flatten and spoil the nap? So you use sprays instead? (I don't own any fully suede shoes due to my ignorance in its care - only a couple of boots with suede heel patches - the portion that I never touch!)

The shoes at issue are Cape Buffalo, and I've never used a spray, only brushed them with a suitable suede brush. I have used Tarrago Nano-protector on new suede shoes with intent to improve suitability for wear in less than dry condition. As such, it should offer some protection for liquid born stains. Beyond that, I'm unaware that it offers other benefits. I would be reluctant to use it on shoes that old as it tends to seal the individual fibers, and despite assiduous brushing, suede that old is bound to have particles within it.

As you mention, you use coloured creams, and that's another thing - my understanding is that coloured creams also contain nourishment for leather. So you don't necessarily need both colourless conditioner cream + coloured cream. Though you'll often see both recommended in the 3 step shoe care regimen (conditioner - coloured cream - coloured wax).

I've been caring for my shoes for 60+ years. I originally also used the 3 step process. I've learned from experience to delete the first, minimize the 2nd as I described, and only use a tiny bit of paste wax perhaps once a year, but only if the leather will otherwise not shine at all. Paste wax, particularly frequent, heavy applications of such, can have a deleterious effect on leather that increases over time.

The main benefit of all these different shoe care products is to those who sell them, coincidentally also being those who recommend them.

Thanks for the heads up on the solvent element. I suppose now that you mention it, it's pretty obvious! Though I have shoes I am unlikely to touch with coloured cream, at least not frequently, and which don't really get "dirty" - so I suppose an ultra-gentle cream without a solvent would be ideal...?

Again, I've not found creams to be in anyway necessary, except for the reasons I've described.

I had another chat with my cobbler when picking up my items - he actually said mink oil is better for "oiled leather", which I took to mean the more casual leather types. He actually had 3 different Saphir creams (neutral) in stock, and he said not all of them are mink oil based.

I took that away with me thinking I'd be able to clarify clearly which products are which online, but it still isn't clear to me which has mink oil and which doesn't :fool: So I suppose I'll have to go check the product names carefully on my next visit.

EDIT: I think I've figured out the 3 different Saphir creams: Saphir Renovateur, Saphir Mink Oil, and Saphir Nappa Balm Leather Conditioner.

These 3 come in the little glass bottles. The first two, as far as I am aware, contain mink oil, with the second being pure mink oil. The third, which appears to be the most gentle, I think does not.

This third one might be good for those wanting an ultra-delicate option in their shoe-care inventory.

There is also a fourth cream which comes in a bottle: Saphir lotion, which also contains mink oil.

I understand you wish to take the best possible care of your footwear, and I realize that all of these products are seductive, but I strongly recommend keeping it simple as I suggested. Always use good wood trees when you remove your shoes. Brush them clean with a good horsehair brush. Allow three days of rest between wearings. Then give them another good brushing before you put them back on, always using a shoehorn.

Animal oil preparations have produced catastrophic results in the past for those who've put them on dress shoes. They have use for hunting boots in wet moors, and such, but that's about it.

I wouldn't use them.

 

[El Principe]

I understand you wish to take the best possible care of your footwear, and I realize that all of these products are seductive, but I strongly recommend keeping it simple as I suggested. Always use good wood trees when you remove your shoes. .

Well, I'm receptive to the minimalist approach and grateful for the feedback. I'm certainly not a compulsive polisher - but have probably been going overboard with the cream.

I know we're perhaps going off on a tangent here, but how would you define "good wood trees"? I just use cedar trees, split-toe variety.

 

[Flanderian]

Well, I'm receptive to the minimalist approach and grateful for the feedback. I'm certainly not a compulsive polisher - but have probably been going overboard with the cream.

I know we're perhaps going off on a tangent here, but how would you define "good wood trees"? I just use cedar trees, split-toe variety.

Cedar is good, if they're the right size and do their job, they're good trees as I define them. Needn't be elaborate.

 

[eagle2250]

^^
I would only add that adequate, good quality shoe trees don't have to be expensive! Alpha sized cedar trees will get the job done right.

 

[Fraser Tartan]

The term "mink oil" is used both for mink oil from a mink and for a synthetic product that mimics mink oil.

 

[Fraser Tartan]

Here's an example of the latter…

 

[eagle2250]

Venetian Cream has become the backbone of my shoe care program. Not using a lot of it at any one time, I do apply it to every pair of my hard(?) tanned leather shoes at least once per year. If a shoes appearance is seen calling for help during the year, I do sometimes apply a second application. Otherwise, I polish out scuffs as they occur and just wear and enjoy my shoes. I have 45+ year old shoes in my collection that look like they have another 10 years in them. Hell, I'm not sure I have that many years left in me! LOL.

 

[Howard]

To maintain a decent shine I've been rubbing Vaseline on my shoes.

 

[Flanderian]

To maintain a decent shine I've been rubbing Vaseline on my shoes.

Why not mayonnaise?

But seriously, if they're patent leather, great! Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Barrister & Solicitor]

Venetian Cream has become the backbone of my shoe care program. Not using a lot of it at any one time, I do apply it to every pair of my hard(?) tanned leather shoes at least once per year. If a shoes appearance is seen calling for help during the year, I do sometimes apply a second application. Otherwise, I polish out scuffs as they occur and just wear and enjoy my shoes. I have 45+ year old shoes in my collection that look like they have another 10 years in them. Hell, I'm not sure I have that many years left in me! LOL.

My grand mother drove to age 96 and passed away a few days shy of her 99th birthday.

I'm sure you will outlast your beloved shoes!

 

[Flanderian]

My grand mother drove to age 96 and passed away a few days shy of her 99th birthday.

I'm sure you will outlast your beloved shoes!

Don't tell him that!

He's planning on endowing a shoe museum consisting of his personal collection. And if he wears 'em out, he's S.O.L. Heck, I bet teachers will even bring their kiddies to it for an all-day field trip!

 

[Howard]

Why not mayonnaise?

But seriously, if they're patent leather, great! Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

The shoes I've been wearing are a bit on the old side, I plan on getting some new shoes soon but why mayonnaise?