[Pleasant McIvor]

Cruiser has it right as to the advice for a civilian in this case.

However, his statement about the uniform equivalent needs a little clarification, in my opinion.

Dress mess, at least for the U. S. Army, can be either white tie (formal) or black tie (semi-formal). A white piquet vest is worn with the white piquet tie, or a black (or branch color - only to unit "dining in") satin cummerbund, with the pleats down (!), is worn with black satin tie. That goes for either Blue Dress Mess or White Dress Mess (summer) uniforms.

Class A, which used to be the Army green uniform, and now is basically the same as the old dress blues, can be worn with a black bow tie to semi-formal events after retreat (6:00 p. m., cummerbund superfluous, as the coat is never worn unbuttoned, even while sitting). However, that uniform can't be worn with a white tie to formal events.

Could someone explain why the cummerbund here should be worn with downward-facing pleats? Thank you.

 

[Pleasant McIvor]

Over the past 60 years I have lived in Beaufort, South Carolina; Nashville, Tennessee; and Jacksonville, Florida; in addition to spending a considerable amount of time in Atlanta, Georgia. The majority of guys that I know do not own tuxedos and I have routinely seen semi-formal interpreted to mean a suit. I can only assume that you hang with a very select group of people, but they certainly aren't the norm.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the invitation doesn't mean black tie. I'm just saying that based on my personal experiences I would not interpret it that way. And like I said, I am very familiar with the South East.

Cruiser

I agree that the majority of guys in metro Atlanta may not own dinner jackets, but I don't think it's possible to use metro Atlanta as a worthy paradigm for the South. In the Buckhead-Sandy Springs area, I'd be hard-pressed to find a man who is unaccustomed to wearing his dinner jacket after 6, and evening weddings certainly require one. I would lump Jacksonville in with Atlanta in this regard. There are parts of the city where black tie is customary and (more) parts where it is not.

As for smaller towns like Beaufort (or Savannah, with which I am most familiar), it depends entirely on the crowd or the location of the event. If it is held at any sort of social club or historic venue, black tie after 6 is the rule. If not, the rules slide into ambiguity. I have always found it easy to tell from the social standing of the party's host, however.

 

[Pleasant McIvor]

I live in Buckhead.

I'll grant you that on the occasion of a black tie party at the Cherokee Town Club, it's unlikely to see any rentals, or any nondescript dark suits. At the spring debutante balls, the gentlemen will be in white tie without exception.

But to suggest that all of my neighbors, from Deering Road to Club Drive, from Piedmont Avenue to Defoors Ferry, make a regular habit of wearing dinner jackets, is not even a quaint notion now gone with the wind - it's just false.

Yes, I certainly overstated that, and you would know better.

But, if wishing made it so...

(it doesn't).

 

[Pleasant McIvor]

^ And of course I meant that the men in question make a habit of wearing dinner jackets to events that can be formal, not every day after six. I assumed that the context of the thread still applied to my post. Nevertheless, I should have been clearer.