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The inheritance taxes taken to far. Or, socialism giving itself a black eye, while morons are decieved.
Audi S5 TC, you should take a tailoring class.
Savile Row: Slipping Out of Style?
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Audi S5 TC, you should take a tailoring class.
For a suit to be classed as Savile Row bespoke it must be made on The Row or within 200m of Savile Row. However, do not confuse this with bespoke suits, which can be made anyway in the world.
AJ Hewitt are not on Savile Row any more; however, they are within the 200m boundary. When they did move to 11 St. George Street, they had a bit of a fight on their hands as they still wanted their suits to be Savile Row bespoke and they did win. If they had moved to Hanover Street, they would have been outside the boundary. They even used to be part of the Savile Row Bespoke Association, at present Anderson & Sheppard and Meyer & Mortimer are the only members of SRBA that are not based on Savile Row.
I think the boundary was created so that some work could take place off Savile Row but within reasonable distance to still keep the tradition of making the suit on Savile Row.
William Westmancott has a location in Romford, Essex and I assume this is where the suits are made. He makes semi-bespoke and bespoke suits but his bespoke suits cannot be called Savile Row bespoke as they are made outside the 200m boundary.
Is this a big issue? No. A quality bespoke suit can be made that is not Savile Row bespoke. Savile Row bespoke is in place to keep the tradition of Savile Row and the process of making the suits on Savile Row.
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The ruling to no longer allow Ravi Tailor to be a member of Savile Row Bespoke was because he was moved more than 100 yards from the centre of Savile Row. The decision seems to have been enforced by Mark Henderson of Gieves & Hawks who, isn't a tailor himself and works for a company who's owners are based in Hong Kong. Rubinacci's suits are made in Italy, (Naples or Rome) and William Westmancott seems to be all hype.
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I think the idea is to stop people damaging the reputation of Savile Row by offering inferior quality suits from a Savile Row address, and claiming they are proper Savile Row suits.
Personally if a tailor has a good reputation his location shouldn't matter.
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OK, now, let me see if I've got this straight:
An excellent tailor who moves from an actual address on Savile Row, but within 200m is still "Savile Row"!
An excellent tailor who either moves from Savile Row, or originally establishes, outside the 200m delimitation can not, or no longer, claim to be "Savile Row".
Unclear is whether a tailor with a Savile Row address, or one within 200m, but whose clothing is cut and/or sewn outside the "Golden Mile" and its 200m quarantine, say Bayswater, can legitimately be "Savile Row".
Then, of course, there's all the egalitarian protestations that it doesn't really matter where an excellent bespoke product comes from:icon_smile:
An inferior tailor with a shop on Savile Row degrades the reputation of the Row and is therefor not "proper Savile Row".
An excellent tailor who moves from an actual address on Savile Row, but within 200m is still "Savile Row"!
An excellent tailor who either moves from Savile Row, or originally establishes, outside the 200m delimitation can not, or no longer, claim to be "Savile Row".
Unclear is whether a tailor with a Savile Row address, or one within 200m, but whose clothing is cut and/or sewn outside the "Golden Mile" and its 200m quarantine, say Bayswater, can legitimately be "Savile Row".
Then, of course, there's all the egalitarian protestations that it doesn't really matter where an excellent bespoke product comes from:icon_smile:
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Bespoke tailoring is a 400 year old tradition, Henry Poole moved onto Savile Row in 1846 roughly 150 years ago.
Bespoke tailoring is a term that basically describes the transformation from when the French who invented tailoring in the 1200's and therefore dominated the craft, lost out to the tailors in the West End of London, who brought in formal wear as the mode in which the great and the good dressed.
My argument is that anyone who follows the traditions of the original bespoke tailors, is the genuine article. Cal it Savile Row or Bespoke but don't let the likes of Mark Henderson who is not a Savile Row bespoke tailor decide.
Ravi Tailor is the genuine article as is Edward Sexton - and my own tailor John Davis having trained under Fred Stabbury of Kilgour French and Stanbury.
What's with the 200m thing?
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Bespoke is an English term for custom tailoring. Savile Row is merely a district in London of some of the finest tailors on earth who do tailoring a few certain ways. Other tailors from different parts of England and the rest of the world tailored different, many different ways, and some were just as good. If you read stuff from about 140 years ago by West End tailors they are complaining about how much of their skills have fallen (over all) and how great the French and German tailors were. In fact, the old West End tailors were complaining about the use of sewing machines, by some of the younger tailors, and their clothes amounting to being no better than rtw factory clothes.
It is interesting to see how some time honored methods are departing for newer ideas, or speed. Some old tailors (probably all dead now) complained of sewing machine seams and would say that at least certain seams or certain parts of them be hand sewn.
It is interesting to see how some time honored methods are departing for newer ideas, or speed. Some old tailors (probably all dead now) complained of sewing machine seams and would say that at least certain seams or certain parts of them be hand sewn.
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Savile row will never go out of style entirely.
The irony is that a lot of tailors on the row just aren't serious about the trade themselves, often it is just a job to them not a passion, which means the service can be not as good as one would expect.
There is also another camp, that still thinks they can turn there nose up at customers or turn down work. I worked for both Richard James and Gieves and Hawkes and encountered this often on the Row and always a reluctance to change.
Sadly, Savile row has caused a lot of it's own decline with these attitudes.
That said their are some great characters still there, like Andrew Goldberg bespoke manager of Gieves, Richard Anderson and Sean from RJ, who I always like.
Kilgour is great as well, I like Carlo's attitude of being in business to do business.
Rant over...
:devil:
The irony is that a lot of tailors on the row just aren't serious about the trade themselves, often it is just a job to them not a passion, which means the service can be not as good as one would expect.
There is also another camp, that still thinks they can turn there nose up at customers or turn down work. I worked for both Richard James and Gieves and Hawkes and encountered this often on the Row and always a reluctance to change.
Sadly, Savile row has caused a lot of it's own decline with these attitudes.
That said their are some great characters still there, like Andrew Goldberg bespoke manager of Gieves, Richard Anderson and Sean from RJ, who I always like.
Kilgour is great as well, I like Carlo's attitude of being in business to do business.
Rant over...
:devil:
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I think all this talk of is it Savile row or not is strange. It sounds like people who should be more about individuality, style and quality are concerned with a label. When you act like that you may as well follow Prada or Gucci.
Having a Savile row address does not make you a great tailor.
Having a Savile row address does not make you a great tailor.
I think there is a confusion about companies with a Savile Row address. Take Steed for example, available at number 12 but HQed Cumbria - on the website it days Steed Savile Row and has details for both locations. On the website, there is information about bespoke and semi-spoke; however, Steed bespoke is never called Savile Row bespoke.
From a legal stand-point, there is nothing wrong wihh having Savile Row in the name because they are based there and with the information they are giving, at no point moment is Steed bespoke mentioned as if it is Savile Row bespoke.
To be honest, I would prefer people like Edwin (Steed) and William (William Westmancott) use locations on The Row then designers like Lanvin.
There is also another issue of cost and attracting the younger generation, a Gieves & Hawkes bespoke would cost at least £3.4k. In the summer they had a nice grey 2-piece suit on display in super 130's cloth and it was on sale for about £1.9k, I asked about the cost of bespoke and it would be £4k. Plus, some younger people may not want to walk into somewhere like G&H, Henry Poole, etc and likely find it easier talking to Edwin or William. If I really wanted bespoke for about £2k then I can go to Steed or WW and it is a good way of help The Row a tailors road, affordable and making it attractive for the younger generation.
That is the Savile Row boundary despite what MH has said about AJ Hewitt, they can still legally say Savile Row Bespoke. The SRBA may not agree with it but not every true Savile Row bespoke tailor is part of the SRBA.
If you look at the AJ Hewitt website, https://www.aj-hewitt.co.uk, the webpage title is 'Anthony J Hewitt Savile Row Bespoke Tailors'; if they were outside the 200m boundary it would be 'Anthony J Hewitt Bespoke Tailors'. In the content, Savile Row and Savile Row London is mentioned a number of times.
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Just to point out.
I do pay rent for 12 Savile row & that in itself I feel is justified to put the address on my site. Similar to the likes of say Chanel, who put London, New York & Paris on theirs.
Also on my homepage it says:
Edwin Deboise Savile Row Bespoke tailor
Edwin DeBoise
www.steed.co.uk
I would certainly hope these historic tailors are still in business when the time comes for me to purchase a bespoke suit. It is certainly a shame that these fashion designers (along with GQ and the likes) are negatively influencing the opinions of the general public.
Recently GQ was celebrating 20 years with lots of British shops like Hackett and even on The Row (Gieves, Nortons, etc) some shop-fronts had a GQ display. With Hackett one can understand, but why The Row took part I do not understand.
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