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I've enjoyed and been a fan of boxing for over half a century. And I acknowledge there are many issues inherent in the sport and business that are problematic. But what I'm addressing here is a surprising dichotomy between what I've observed of sartorial standards among broadcasters, and even boxers out of the ring when compared to many other professional sports. While the general trend in sports, even among once finally tailored basketball coaches and players, is heading downward, I'm observing the opposite among some in the sport of boxing.

The Showtime Network produces and distributes some of the best boxing and coverage of same I've seen. Ever. But on point, the people doing the work tend to be comparatively and conservatively well dressed. And if not displaying a great deal of creativity, they're wearing decent, traditional clothing that fits well and which presents them and their production in its best light.

I'm commenting on this for those whom it might interest after watching some bouts last night and being struck by how well the announcers and commentators looked compared to so many I've seen in other sports. It was really enjoyable.





 

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Is it not the intended function of all those impeccably fitted fancy threads to briefly distract us from the abject brutality of the contest we are about to or are in the process of observing? Now if you want to watch something really special, tune into the World Wrestling Federation and Vince McMahon for some well orchestrated, classy pugilism! LOL. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Is it not the intended function of all those impeccably fitted fancy threads to briefly distract us from the abject brutality of the contest we are about to or are in the process of observing? Now if you want to watch something really special, tune into the World Wrestling Federation and Vince McMahon for some well orchestrated, classy pugilism! LOL. ;)
Ah, but it's so refreshing when coupled with knowledgeable, intelligent commentary. They have a few bellowing buffoons, but fortunately they're still in the minority. Even Paulie Malignaggi, former 2 weight world champion, AKA Brooklyn Paulie bane of Bensonhurst, is impressively intelligent and articulate, as well as having modeled for clothing ads in Esquire.

Here he is in his bespoke suit from Steed Tailors (Though I'll have to talk to him about that last vest button. ;)) -

 

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Ah, but it's so refreshing when coupled with knowledgeable, intelligent commentary. They have a few bellowing buffoons, but fortunately they're still in the minority. Even Paulie Malignaggi, former 2 weight world champion, AKA Brooklyn Paulie bane of Bensonhurst, is impressively intelligent and articulate, as well as having modeled for clothing ads in Esquire.

Here he is in his bespoke suit from Steed Tailors (Though I'll have to talk to him about that last vest button. ;)) -

Two thoughts, one, you're on your own if you want to criticize a world boxing champion to his face about his vest button :))), but, two, if you do survive, please suggest to him that he pulls up his tie so that the shirt collar doesn't show over it.

I really like the overall feel of the suit on him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Two thoughts, one, you're on your own if you want to criticize a world boxing champion to his face about his vest button :))), but, two, if you do survive, please suggest to him that he pulls up his tie so that the shirt collar doesn't show over it.

I really like the overall feel of the suit on him.
Paulie was never much of puncher, and rather relied upon speed and skill, so maybe I could survive one round! :rolleyes: (If I were to lay down in a fetal position!)

Yes, that tie-collar juncture is jarring! I was giving him some leeway believing it the product of a new shirt and an unfortunate shirtmaker as much as needing to pull the knot up into the notch. New shirt collars with too much, or too little tie space can be problematic when the portion of the neckband that buttons is cut straight across, rather than being rounded off. Most British made shirts are so made, as are those from Brooks. And while I'm sure it's proper and traditional, it can be problematic.

Most of my shirts are currently Brooks and I make the best of this issue, but having once had a shirtmaker who made them otherwise, I know it's not what I prefer.
 

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New shirt collars with too much, or too little tie space can be problematic when the portion that buttons is cut straight across, rather than being rounded off.

Most of my shirts are currently Brooks and I make the best of this issue, but having once had a shirtmaker who made them otherwise, I know its not what I prefer.
Yes, the dreaded VCB (Visible Collar Band) Syndrome-or "VICOB" as it's colloquially known in the menswear industry.

This is one of my 12,258 (and counting) pet peeves-dress shirts that are so indifferently designed that, no matter how adroitly you knot and cinch your necktie, there's always going to be a conspicuous line of collar band parallel to the top of the tie knot. Or, worse, scrunched up above the knot.

With dress shirts, why isn't each end of the collar band indented or notched so that when both ends come around the neck and meet behind the tie knot, the top edge of the band automatically falls below the top of the knot, and thus out of sight?

A few years ago I saw some Thomas Pink ready-to-wear shirts with collar bands that were notched at each end. And many-not all, but many-of Ronald Reagan's custom-made shirts were designed this way. In so many photos of Reagan, there is no collar band whatsoever peeking above his necktie knot. (Sometimes there is, but only sometimes.)

The indented collar band-now more than ever. If you have one, then you won't have to pinch and cinch and squeeze the tie knot in order to minimize the presence of the above-the-knot collar band.

VCB Syndrome: the shame of the shirtmaking industry.

(I don't mind a bit of VICOB on an oxford cloth buttondown shirt, due to the inherently informal nature of that garment. But more refined shirts that are intended to be worn with a necktie? Unacceptable.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
With dress shirts, why isn't each end of the collar band indented or notched so that when both ends come around the neck and meet behind the tie knot, the top edge of the band automatically falls below the top of the knot, and thus out of sight?
What I've found as a preference is simply for the two corners to be rounded. Parisian shirtmaker Daniel Levy makes most of his shirts in this manner, but will vary the neckband to achieve what I assume is his customer's preferences.

https://daniel-levy-chemisier.tumblr.com/archive







I was using SGA from their factory store 20+ years ago, and that was how they made their collars, and my ties always fit well into the notch.

An additional reason for Paulie's dilemma might be the whether the collar was made to have tie space or not. I was taught one without was called locked. But since most cotton will shrink, and those subjected to commercial laundering most, they made their locked collars with the collar actually 1/4" past locked, that is, lapping over, so that it would shrink into place. Collars so made when they're new can yield what we see in the photo in combination with other issues.

But since I didn't use a commercial laundry, I simply had them make them with 1/4" of tie space. And depending upon the cloth, they would either remain almost locked, or shrink to yield as much as 1/4" of tie space which I find desirable anyway.
 

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I have heard boxing called the perfect spectator sport because you need no specialized knowledge of the sport to understand perfectly what was going on in the ring. I have read that from the 1920s through the 1950s boxing was the most popular spectator sport in the USA. I was certainly an ardent fight fan in the latter part of that era.

A lot of the boxing champions of older times were very sharp dressers. The first black heavyweight champion, the great Jack Johnson, was a particularly notable dandy, and his major rivals like Jim Jeffries and Jess Willard were pretty sharp dressers themselves. Of course that was an era that placed much more emphasis on dressing well.

I also seem to recall having read that Muhammad Ali availed himself of Savile Row tailoring.

Jeffries lived in Los Angeles and was a friend of some of my relatives. Jack Johnson, the only man to ever beat Jeff, when he was well past his prime, once stated that at his best, Jeff could have knocked out Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis in the same night! Back in the early '70s, an early-day computer simulation showed Jeffries defeating Ali. Ali was so mad he threatened to sue the Ring magazine (I think it was) who conducted the simulations.
 

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Well I assume mostly we're talking about title fights here, and those are certainly dressy, at least in the front rows; the presenters need to be at least as dressy, so they step up their sartorial game.

I think title fights are the "opera" of sports: people go for the fight, yes, but they also go to see and be seen. It's an *event*, not just a sporting match.

I suppose venue plays a role as well, as most title fights are held in Vegas or Atlantic City or the like, where folks are inclined to "make the scene" anyway.

Now, local fights in neighborhood gyms are another thing all together. We have an old 'hood boxing gym not to far from where I live in Atlanta, where the locals go to watch scrappy locals box, and it's decidedly a casual, after work crowd (matches are usually in the early evening).

DH
 

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Skinny suit for sure - and look how short the jacket is! Just shows that you can pull it off if you are ripped!
You really think he's "pulling it off"? Looks to me like he's having fun in an ill-fitting costume. Ali certainly had a fine physique, but he was never really "ripped" (at least in the bodybuilding sense of the term).
 

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You really think he's "pulling it off"? Looks to me like he's having fun in an ill-fitting costume. Ali certainly had a fine physique, but he was never really "ripped" (at least in the bodybuilding sense of the term).
I agree - I think it only "works" as a costume or an over-the-top affected look. He's Ali and has the personality and presence to pull it off, but on a pure tailoring / proportions basis, it looks awkward and off to me.
 

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You really think he's "pulling it off"? Looks to me like he's having fun in an ill-fitting costume. Ali certainly had a fine physique, but he was never really "ripped" (at least in the bodybuilding sense of the term).
In that picture at that time I think he was pretty lean. I agree that when he got up to 235 not so lean but earlier in his career he was as low as 190 pounds. And I actually do think he is pulling it off pretty well. But even the umbrella is skinny by modern standards!
 
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