[DapperDandy]

I recently read a post by Coolal stating that Richard Lim charged him extra for working button holes. I'm sorry but I become suspicious of a tailor the moment he gives me he option of non-functional button-holes. I don't care if he charges me extra, I'd prefer he just add it to the price originally quoted instead of insulting my sartorial acumen by offering me non-functional button-holes. Your thoughts?

 

[Ay329]

Not all bespoke clients desire working buttons.

Enzo Caruso...who charges $2400 CMT for a 2 piece suit mentioned extra $$$ options included working buttons.

My current tailor for 6 years never asked that question...its presumed a bespoke product will have this...keep in mind he never makes a lapel button hole

So no, its not offensive...and considering the $600 price quoted...dont' expect much. Sometimes cheap pricing helps lure the client initially in...and then the extras add up...just like car buying

Caveat Emptor...let the buyer beware

 

[coolal]

Working button holes, for any practical purpose, are useless. Those of us on the forum that are detail minded enough to care about working button holes surely are not "rolling up their cuffs" at work.

They are in the category of understated elegance.

As for the pricing, when you're dealing with anything less than couture clothing houses, I expect itemization and a breakdown of options. The allure of couture is the fixed price with "everything" included. They factor in the shopping assistant driving out to an estate and dropping off clothing items.

I do understand the argument, but in the end of the day, an informed buyer will always ask the right questions to get the right price quote. If in the end the price is what you're willing to pay for the quality received, then what else is there to talk about?

I paid C.M.T $480 for the sport coat, $15 (or 20) for the working button holes and $20 (or 25) for pick stitching. I'd rather not pay $525 and have him assume i wanted working button holes and pick stitching when I might just want to pay $480 for a simpler coat. It's a sliding scale as well, I was using super 130 suiting that I brought in. Had it been super 160 the CMT rate would have been higher just as it would have been lower had I been working with super 90's suiting.

I think it's all quite fair. Every buyer is different, hence allowing every buyer to choose the options they want without priced in assumptions. That's the whole point of bespoke / custom in my point of view.

-Alex

P.S. - I assume it goes without saying, but Richard Lim's quality (quite high), in my opinion, far and away rationalizes his prices (which obviously aren't outrageous in the least).

 

[Mute]

Also, for some of us with unfortunately short arms, the sleeves may need to be shorten beyond the existing venting and can't have working button holes without major surgery on the jacket sleeves.

 

[Peak and Pine]

I don't care if he charges me extra, I'd prefer he just add it to the price originally quoted instead of insulting my sartorial acumen by offering me non-functional button-holes. Your thoughts?

Okay. My thoughts would be that I prefer not only no button-holes, but no buttons. Have I further insulted your, ahem, sartorial acumen?

​

 

[arnaud]

Richard's a good guy and runs a fine shop. Charging extra for the working sleeves ain't nothing compared the overall value of his product and service. $600 smacks for a custom suit in LA is an excellent value.

 

[JLibourel]

Moreover, $15 or $20 for working buttonholes is a helluva bargain if Lim means for all eight sleeve buttons. If it were for each buttonhole (which would not be an outrageous charge, BTW), I'd pass on the working buttonholes--an elegant touch, but not worth $160 or even $120 to me.

 

[coolal]

Richard's a good guy and runs a fine shop. Charging extra for the working sleeves ain't nothing compared the overall value of his product and service. $600 smacks for a custom suit in LA is an excellent value.

Wholeheartedly agree!

Moreover, $15 or $20 for working buttonholes is a helluva bargain if Lim means for all eight sleeve buttons. If it were for each buttonhole (which would not be an outrageous charge, BTW), I'd pass on the working buttonholes--an elegant touch, but not worth $160 or even $120 to me.

As far as I'm aware the charge is for the presence of working button holes. I had 4 on each side, but I'm pretty sure it would be the same price for 1-3 on each side, instead of 4.

-Alex

 

[DapperDandy]

Okay. My thoughts would be that I prefer not only no button-holes, but no buttons. Have I further insulted your, ahem, sartorial acumen?

​

You haven't insulted me because you're not my tailor. Perhaps you should try and comprehend the context of the post before you reply.

As for Richard Lim's prices, I can't argue that it's a great bargain. His quality, however, isn't quite up to par, atleast from what I've seen. But my initial post wasn't about quality or even value. I just think that if a man will go through the extra effort to wear bespoke then he should expect nothing but the best. A tailor asking if I want functional button-holes for a $20 surcharge is akin to a shoe salesman telling me there's an extra $20 charge for shoe laces.

 

[JLibourel]

Well, if you don't think you'd like Lim, you might give W.W. Chan a try. They'll be visiting Beverly Hills next month, and I can certainly recommend their work.

Some men in the forum culture also like Hemrajani Brothers, who have a facility in Costa Mesa right by South Coast Plaza.

 

[The Heirophant]

Working button holes, for any practical purpose, are useless. Those of us on the forum that are detail minded enough to care about working button holes surely are not "rolling up their cuffs" at work.

I wore an odd jacket to hospital the day after my daughter was born. I was given the opportunity to bathe her and I rolled my sleeves up while keeping my jacket on!

 

[arnaud]

A tailor asking if I want functional button-holes for a $20 surcharge is akin to a shoe salesman telling me there's an extra $20 charge for shoe laces.

A silly and sophomoric analogy. With a bespoke starting price point at $600, there will obviously be different options and grades of work. Hence the option for working buttonholes.

 

[coolal]

You haven't insulted me because you're not my tailor. Perhaps you should try and comprehend the context of the post before you reply.

As for Richard Lim's prices, I can't argue that it's a great bargain. His quality, however, isn't quite up to par, atleast from what I've seen. But my initial post wasn't about quality or even value. I just think that if a man will go through the extra effort to wear bespoke then he should expect nothing but the best. A tailor asking if I want functional button-holes for a $20 surcharge is akin to a shoe salesman telling me there's an extra $20 charge for shoe laces.

A silly and sophomoric analogy. With a bespoke starting price point at $600, there will obviously be different options and grades of work. Hence the option for working buttonholes.

I'd have to agree. You're not comparing apples to apples. You're taking a marketing expectation of bespoke akin to Savile Row and applying that across the whole gamut of price and quality. At $5k USD I expect EVERYTHING accounted for. I will not pay an extra "fee" for anything. At $525, $25 for working button holes is 5% of the cost! At this price range, the prudent thing to do is give people the option.

If the cut / quality is not to your liking, move on, your first and only question was already answered, by yourself.

Stop trying to compare a great deal on custom clothing with a best of class bespoke experience (Savile Row). Some guy charging $600 with a priced in assumption is taking his customer for a ride if they have no interest in working button holes, pick stiching, or whatever Lim might charge more for.

Sorry but your logic is completely baseless. I understand the idea that it sounds "shady" to tag on fees for options. But at this price point, it's expected and required. If you feel the "quality is not up to par" that's an entirely other discussion. Because, as has been clearly illustrated, the quality of Richard Lim's work far exceeds the price. (Perhaps to you it does not compare to 2k-5k bespoke suits, but why should it?)

 

[constantmystery]

when does W.W. Chan visit Beverly Hills and where?

This looks like a possibility for me as well , if I get can get the detils....

Well, if you don't think you'd like Lim, you might give W.W. Chan a try. They'll be visiting Beverly Hills next month, and I can certainly recommend their work.

Some men in the forum culture also like Hemrajani Brothers, who have a facility in Costa Mesa right by South Coast Plaza.

 

[JLibourel]

The W.W. Chan team is scheduled to be at the Beverly Hilton hotel on Friday, March 20.

You can make an appointment be e-mailing [email protected].

 

[DapperDandy]

A silly and sophomoric analogy. With a bespoke starting price point at $600, there will obviously be different options and grades of work. Hence the option for working buttonholes.

What's silly and sophomoric is your inability to comprehend the quality of bespoke versus an upstart "mickey mouse" job. For centuries, tailors have worked hard to perfect the art of constructing a suit. You are insulting their hard-work by acknowledging this man in the same breath. Look, you consider $600 to be a good deal, those who are used to $20k suits think $5000 suits are a good deal. But all expect to get their money's worth. Richard Lim claims to offer "high society" clothing, but there is nothing high society about his tailoring. To me, a bespoke suits includes all the classic elements of a suit. Including functional button-holes. What is the point of having buttons if they're not functional. It's like buying plastic roses, sure they look good from afar, but once you get close is when you see that a fake can not compare to the real thing

As for Mr. Coolal, how can man who finds it perfectly logical to dress himself in third-rate tailoring, question my logic?

 

[DapperDandy]

The W.W. Chan team is scheduled to be at the Beverly Hilton hotel on Friday, March 20.

You can make an appointment be e-mailing [email protected].

Thanks for the advice JLib. You always have helpful responses. Have you tried A-man?

 

[coolal]

What's silly and sophomoric is your inability to comprehend the quality of bespoke versus an upstart "mickey mouse" job. For centuries, tailors have worked hard to perfect the art of constructing a suit. You are insulting their hard-work by acknowledging this man in the same breath. Look, you consider $600 to be a good deal, those who are used to $20k suits think $5000 suits are a good deal. But all expect to get their money's worth. Richard Lim claims to offer "high society" clothing, but there is nothing high society about his tailoring. To me, a bespoke suits includes all the classic elements of a suit. Including functional button-holes. What is the point of having buttons if they're not functional. It's like buying plastic roses, sure they look good from afar, but once you get close is when you see that a fake can not compare to the real thing

As for Mr. Coolal, how can man who finds it perfectly logical to dress himself in third-rate tailoring, question my logic?

First Rate: Savile Row or Accepted Equiv - $5000+
Second Rate: Off Row or Accepted Equiv - $2500-$5000
Third Rate: Entry Level Custom / Bespoke - $1000-$2500 (with fabric)
Fourth Rate: Mid - High End RTW / High end MTM - $1000-$3000
Fifth Rate: Average RTW - $500-$1000
Sixth Rate: Budget RTW - Sub $500
(In retail rates)

Each bracket has it's own built in assumptions. It's assumed in the jump from RTW to MTM that most aspects of the suit should fit almost perfectly and any alterations are part of the process. In the jump from MTM to Custom / Bespoke it's assumed the style is governed by the customer and not the MTM model.

I'm paying for entry level bespoke, thus every frill is itemized. Your shoes wouldn't fit or work properly without laces. You'd fall out of them and it would be considered an incomplete product, no assumptions necessary. Not having a working button hole does nothing to the functional nature of my suit. If I choose to add them, thats my choice, I don't want it priced in.

You're expecting first rate service and bundling of options from third rate pricing. That fallacious logic, no way around it.

 

[arnaud]

What's silly and sophomoric is your inability to comprehend the quality of bespoke versus an upstart "mickey mouse" job.

You're expecting first rate service and bundling of options from third rate pricing. That fallacious logic, no way around it.

DopperDandy: Richard Lim has made 3 suits and 2 sports coats for me. All of very good quality - and considering the price, and all around excellent value. Also had suits made all of the world. I think I've learned a thing or two about this. Your statement therefore is not just wrong, but deeply, irredeemably ignorant. Mr. Lim is no Mickey Mouse. And you are no Dapper Dandy. Coolal was generous in his assessment.

 

[GBR]

No unless he knows you personally from previous orders, he does not know if you would hang him for being $5 above a price you have from another shop.

There are many people who do not know that they are doing or saying as long as the shop keeper tells them that is made especially for them all they think is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s.

You have a lot to learn as your 8 posts tells us.