[The Sartorial Executive]

I thought some of you may be interested in this video of R&S on BBC TV

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7592221.stm

 

[The Sartorial Executive]

And another one from the FT website here https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8d31124a-7527-11dd-ab30-0000779fd18c.html

 

[Penang Lawyer]

Thank you the articles are very interesting. Does anyone know if the tailors are send the sewing of there garments to other countries?

 

[rssmsvc]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but I am wondering what "made in england" or italy actually means as a way to differentiate the quality. All the people in the background working looked non-English, so what difference would it make if say the tailor measured them in England and sent the shirts to be made else where. There was an article recently about the illegal Chinese workers in Italy , just for the "made in italy". It doesn't seem good for the workers or for us who purchase the items.

I wish they would get over the made in ... nonsense, and start investing in training programs and apprenticeships. I think on the Savile Row BBC series all the apprentices talked about how they basically lived like beggars in that stage of their lives to get to the next. That seems stupid to me, instead of whining about the lost art , invest in programs and policies that allow the older tailors to live healthy long lives with proper health care and become prosperous to pass on the art and for the apprentices to make enough that they can sustain the apprenticeship programs to get to the next stage. If that can't be done in the USA or England then those same schools and training programs that only teach one how to make things at the best levels should be passed on or into other countries so that they can benefit from A JOB and the wonderful things that come out of doing something at the best of their ability.

 

[The Sartorial Executive]

I would suggest that the ladies in the videos ARE English, albeit of Asian descent.

 

[Infrasonic]

The factory is in Kent.

 

[misterdonuts]

I would suggest that the ladies in the videos ARE English, albeit of Asian descent.

+1. I have as much instinct for political correctness as my spaniel has, but there is a whiff of racism in the air...

That said, the point about supporting those in the craft is well taken. I do my bit by being a regular customer. It would even be better if those who make a lot of noise about it also put their money where their mouth is. I recall all the excitement when Rover was about to go under. Crowds demanded that the government do something about saving Rover and by extension the British automobile industry. One of those marching chaps was asked, so what sort of car do you drive? He said, a VW Golf. Oh, good...

 

[Holdfast]

I thought some of you may be interested in this video of R&S on BBC TV

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7592221.stm

Nice video.

I hope to put their work to the test soon!

 

[16412]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but I am wondering what "made in england" or italy actually means as a way to differentiate the quality. All the people in the background working looked non-English, so what difference would it make if say the tailor measured them in England and sent the shirts to be made else where. There was an article recently about the illegal Chinese workers in Italy , just for the "made in italy". It doesn't seem good for the workers or for us who purchase the items.

I wish they would get over the made in ... nonsense, and start investing in training programs and apprenticeships. I think on the Savile Row BBC series all the apprentices talked about how they basically lived like beggars in that stage of their lives to get to the next. That seems stupid to me, instead of whining about the lost art , invest in programs and policies that allow the older tailors to live healthy long lives with proper health care and become prosperous to pass on the art and for the apprentices to make enough that they can sustain the apprenticeship programs to get to the next stage. If that can't be done in the USA or England then those same schools and training programs that only teach one how to make things at the best levels should be passed on or into other countries so that they can benefit from A JOB and the wonderful things that come out of doing something at the best of their ability.

I sorta agree. They need to jack the prices up and pay better wages. The lack of reasonable apprentiship is shooting themselves in the foot. Hiring people from third world countries is not the same quality. Shortcuts do not make quality.

Apprentiships is schooling. Most students (colleges) pay for part of there schooling, taxes and grants pay the rest. In learning trades- guildes and unions usually have the paid apprentiships (ever see a cheap plumber or electrian?). How many kids in college live well? Or, just get by? Low wages certainly weed out those that are not interested. Medical and retirement plan is necessary for every company. Many trades charge lots of money so the apprentiships make quite well and the tailoring world needs to do the same. It's like skiing, if you don't keep up with the skis, you will be sitting on the snow, which is not skiing. Some of the owners of tailor shops are not real business people, so they really don't know what to charge and where to spend the money to further the business.

 

[Blackie]

My friend in London makes bespoke shoes and is one of the best makers in the world. Out of the circa 2K GBP you pay for a pair in the shop, he gets roughly 225 or 250. I ache for him because he is such a passionate guy but lacks business skills.

B

 

[gng8]

Great videos. Makes me wonder where my Hilditch and Key shirts are made.

 

[jdr62]

Rayner and Sturges

Well, these BBC and FT videos have created some interest at least.

R&S are one of just three shirt factories still working in England. They still occupy the building that William Sturges and George Rayner bought in 1913, in Gillingham, Kent - albeit with some improvements!

For 50 or so years they made just collars. Then collars became attached so they started making shirts, progressing from Piccadilly retailers to Jermyn Street and then Saville Row. I have a much fuller, though by no means complete history.

The company was privately taken over several years ago by one individual so that they might survive and keep the tradition of shirts "Made in England".

R&S shirts today are sold under many brands but they have also launched the Alexander Boyd brand as their own, with a store in Spitalfields, London, and a forthcoming collection for Winter 2009 which will be distributed in the UK, Japan and the US, although this is still to be finalised.

I have dealt with the subject of what "Made in England" means in a separate reply.

We shall keep you posted on developments.

 

[jdr62]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but I am wondering what "made in england" or italy actually means as a way to differentiate the quality. All the people in the background working looked non-English, so what difference would it make if say the tailor measured them in England and sent the shirts to be made else where. There was an article recently about the illegal Chinese workers in Italy , just for the "made in italy". It doesn't seem good for the workers or for us who purchase the items.

Sir
I am afraid that your post would cause offence if read by the R&S employees you mention. While all our employees are UK nationals, some (a minority if you like) are not of English descent, but have lived in the country for many years. All are immensely proud of what they do, and are very good at their craft. Many have worked for R&S for 25 or 30 years - or more. They are like an extended family and the atmosphere in the factory is unlike any factory I have seen in the world - a small community who get on together and who make excellent product.

There is a very different situation in Italy, where illegal Chinese are paid very little to live and work in squalid and dangerous conditions with no rights (they are illegal) and all they have to look forward to is having their ID's passed on to another illegal when they pass away, and their remains shipped back to China. see the following

Can you compare the two?

R&S make shirts at the highest level with the traditions of the "Made in England" label and each part has been cut and sewn by people with 20 or 30 or 40 years of experience. This is what "Made in England" on our shirts means. You would not get this if a tailor measured you and sent the pieces out to another country to be made by an unknown, with unknown skills in unknown working conditions.

R&S are working on creating apprenticeships in the factory for cutters and machinists so that we can keep our tradition going. These are crafts that we don't want to loose but that can take years to learn.
There are a few facts of life here too. There are no more factory managers with experience in this country - they don't exist. You can't train a manager in a year or two. It takes 10 or 20.
We have to look for experience from Mauritius or elsewhere if we want the factory to be managed and function correctly, otherwise we will become inefficient and not have a future, which means also no future for our employees that we have today, and no future for Made in England shirts.

So perhaps you will look at the wider picture and understand that this is more than just a label with a country of origin.

 

[Orsini]

My friend in London makes bespoke shoes and is one of the best makers in the world. Out of the circa 2K GBP you pay for a pair in the shop, he gets roughly 225 or 250. I ache for him because he is such a passionate guy but lacks business skills.

B

If that is net after tax profit, that ain't so bad.

 

[Orsini]

...what difference would it make if say the tailor measured them in England and sent the shirts to be made else where...

One important difference could be quality control. The further away your supplier is, all other things being equal, the more difficult to bring the project in on spec and schedule (budget was never my responsibility).

 

[misterdonuts]

Well done, jdr62. And, welcome.

 

[gng8]

Full disclosure please

jdr62,

Welcome to the forum. I am sure you will enjoy your time here. I note that in your response to rssmsvc you talk about "our employees" and "our traditions."

We are happy to have the expertise of those in the trades. However if you have a connection to R & S, please tell us what it is. We won't look down on your comments and will likely be quite interested in your expertise. We just want to evaluate your comments in context.

 

[Literide]

I would suggest that the ladies in the videos ARE English, albeit of Asian descent.

I would suggest that while they may be British Subjects, they are not English, nor of any other ethnic group that is indigeneous to the British Isles.

 

[misterdonuts]

Indigenous? That's a good one.

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Why does it matter where the ladies are from? Of what relevance is it?

Let's do substance, not ethnicity, please.