If it is a typical length adjustable self tie, you could have someone else tie it for you, than unhook it in the back. It would then give the asymmetry you want of a self tie and the ease of wear of a pre tied. I imagine with a little ingenuity, you could put some kind of basting stitch in thru the back of the know to prevent it from unravelling, so it could be used over and over. Otherwise necessity would dictate going with a pre tied bow tie. Most every man there will be wearing one anyway, and IMO it is a better look than a conventional tie with a tuxedo. Current fashion trends be damned.

 

Sometimes I can get the damn things tied if I have long enough time. I also bought a pre-tied one from the tie bar and squished it around enough that it mimics a self-tied one so I can relax if I'm thirty minutes behind schedule.

 

Another related question, if I may piggyback on this thread.

Is it better to go with a regular shirt collar while wearing a shawl lapel tuxedo, rather than a wing collar.
I remember someone said this on a recent thread.

I bought an adjustable bow tie the other day, but obviously it wouldn't do if I had a wing collar shirt.
My tuxedo has a shawl collar.

The thrift store did have a much nicer Hackett bow tie for the same price, but sadly it was a half inch too small for me.

 

Another related question, if I may piggyback on this thread.

Is it better to go with a regular shirt collar while wearing a shawl lapel tuxedo, rather than a wing collar.
I remember someone said this on a recent thread.

I bought an adjustable bow tie the other day, but obviously it wouldn't do if I had a wing collar shirt.
My tuxedo has a shawl collar.

The thrift store did have a much nicer Hackett bow tie for the same price, but sadly it was a half inch too small for me.

I would wear a formal turn down collar with either shawl or peak lapels, . I would reserve wing for white tie, but how often will you be going white tie these days, others may differ.

 

Better a turn down collar with a shawl lapel.

 

Thanks all.
Slowly building up an outfit, but most likely I won't have an occasion to wear it until next summer.
Next on the agenda is to get the suit altered. Minor shortening of sleeves and legs.

 

I would wear a formal turn down collar with either shawl or peak lapels, . I would reserve wing for white tie, but how often will you be going white tie these days, others may differ.

I completely agree with this. Some today recommend a wing collar shirt for a peaked lapel dinner jacket and a spread collar shirt for a shawl collar dinner jacket, but there is no historical precedence for that. Wing collars are considered especially tacky in the UK.

 

Is that stiff wing collars of a proper height, such as you'd use for white tie, or the soft floppy things that have trouble staying over the jacket collar?

 

Is that stiff wing collars of a proper height, such as you'd use for white tie, or the soft floppy things that have trouble staying over the jacket collar?

For me it would be stiff wing detachable collar of the tall variety given my long-ish neck, nothing more troublesome than a wing that goes flaccid. However, I doubt I will ever have the occasion to wear such these days, white tie that is.

 

Meaning, is that the unacceptable kind?

 

If it is a typical length adjustable self tie, you could have someone else tie it for you, than unhook it in the back. It would then give the asymmetry you want of a self tie and the ease of wear of a pre tied. I imagine with a little ingenuity, you could put some kind of basting stitch in thru the back of the know to prevent it from unravelling, so it could be used over and over. Otherwise necessity would dictate going with a pre tied bow tie. Most every man there will be wearing one anyway, and IMO it is a better look than a conventional tie with a tuxedo. Current fashion trends be damned.

Thanks, I may try that. Too late for tonight.

 

Sometimes I can get the damn things tied if I have long enough time. I also bought a pre-tied one from the tie bar and squished it around enough that it mimics a self-tied one so I can relax if I'm thirty minutes behind schedule.

Thanks, I took my pre -tied tie and tried that. To me, it looks like a pre-tied bow tie that was jammed in my pocket for a while. I still need to work with it.

 

Meaning, is that the unacceptable kind?

Not quite sure what you are referring to as unacceptable? If it's the soft wing, then yes, for me, it is a personal preference. I'm not saying a soft wing is wrong or unacceptable for others if that is what they choose, if that is what you gathered from my post.

 

I think attached wing collars are unacceptable, along the lines of a pre-tied bow tie. Wing collars are okay for black tie, but I think they look like costume.

 

I think attached wing collars are unacceptable, along the lines of a pre-tied bow tie. Wing collars are okay for black tie, but I think they look like costume.

I would not wear a wing collar with black tie as I stated earlier nor would I wear a pre-tied bow. I agree, wings can be worn with black tie, but not what I choose. I doubt I would have occasion to go white tie these days, it becomes a moot point for me. I don't like narrow band collars be they wing or turn down. Although I recently came across a wing that does seem tall enough is one made by Ledbury.

 

Thanks all.
Slowly building up an outfit, but most likely I won't have an occasion to wear it until next summer.
Next on the agenda is to get the suit altered. Minor shortening of sleeves and legs.

Make sure you have your shirt before you do the alterations so the jacket sleeves can be adjusted relative to the shirt sleeves.

 

"Plus, the invite offers the option of roaring '20s attire." Wing collars were still commonly worn with dinner jackets back then, as well as white marcella ties and waistcoats. So it would actually be appropriate for this sort of themed party.

On the other hand, it sounds like he's putting together a tuxedo for the first time and wants to keep using it... so historical accuracy be damned. A spread collar is the better choice.

Also, pre-tied bows be damned. Just keep practising and you'll get it. None of this pre-tied business is allowed in our quarters.

 

I think attached wing collars are unacceptable, along the lines of a pre-tied bow tie. Wing collars are okay for black tie, but I think they look like costume.

As an example of starched wing with white tie, pointing to the collar . collar alone, https://shop.edeandravenscroft.com/collections/formal-dress/products/starched-wing-collar I do own that rig.

 

Sometimes I can get the damn things tied if I have long enough time. I also bought a pre-tied one from the tie bar and squished it around enough that it mimics a self-tied one so I can relax if I'm thirty minutes behind schedule.

LOL. True confession time. I'm left handed and for some reason that seems to make it harder to self tie a bow tie. I always carry a back-up pre-tied, too. Once the self-tie experience goes bad, it can easily expand to a 30 minute effort or more!

 

As an example of starched wing with white tie, pointing to the collar . collar alone, https://shop.edeandravenscroft.com/collections/formal-dress/products/starched-wing-collar I do own that rig.

I'm a little confused at what you're trying to tell me. I don't think wing collars should be worn with black tie, only white tie. But if one insists on wearing a wing collar with black tie it should be detachable, just as it should be with white tie. The Ede & Ravenscroft detachable wing collar is an excellent example of a proper wing collar.

 

Consider Carrot and Gibbs. Their self-ties button in back, so you can button it, then spin it around so the bow is in front--it would seem much less troublesome for someone with elbow problems. Essentially, if you can button your shirt, you should be able to wear a Carrot and Gibbs. And it won't look like a cheap pre-tied bow. It would be the real thing.

https://www.greatbows.com/

 

I'm a little confused at what you're trying to tell me. I don't think wing collars should be worn with black tie, only white tie. But if one insists on wearing a wing collar with black tie it should be detachable, just as it should be with white tie. The Ede & Ravenscroft detachable wing collar is an excellent example of a proper wing collar.

Matt, In your earlier post who said, "I think attached wing collars are unacceptable, along the lines of a pre-tied bow tie." that statement had me confused.

I think we're in full agreement based on your response now. White tie, stiff wing collar. Black tie, turn down collar. No pre tied bows.