There are many advantages to dealing with a shop in your town. Making a suit/jacket is an art, not a science. Having someone "local" to accept responsibility for the project will be significantly easier than dealing with a distant supplier.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/

 

To be fair, they at least offer personal fittings. Will it match up to the level of service and fit getting something MTM in your place? Probably not. But the price reflects it.

 

Post removed for Unauthorized Advertising - Andy

 

Very interesting. Out of the blue a new member on his first post asks about a MTM firm that until Jan 13 2012* has never been mentioned by anyone in the years this forum has operated. The post goes on to praise the firm for its prompt email response time.





*The first time was Jan 13th when Mr Proper Suit posted his first post in which he bad mouthed a couple competitors and told us he imports soft shoulders from Germany. (I find the image of UPS delivering a truckload of shoulders rather strange.)


It seems every member here was under the mistaken notion that the best bespoke tailors can be found on Saville Row, in Italy, and a few in the US. As ProperSuit, tells us on its site it is "the bespoke suit solution for the world's elite".

 

Well ... to be fair, he mentioned it before January 13 ... on September 20.

On the other hand (or maybe it's the same one), I think the fact he mentioned it once, and has never mentioned anything since, actually makes the post less credibility-inspiring.

 

I really doubt that's a dummy account, considering how long it took ProperSuit to respond.

 

Regardless of all that, I just read about them over at Off The Cuff. His review of their product can be found here: https://offthecuffdc.com/category/suits Since they have a location here in DC, I have been considering them myself.

 

The website isn't bad ... though it wantonly misuses the word "bespoke," at least so far as I understand it. It's not bespoke: it's MTM.

To my (limited) understanding, for MTM, the price is low enough to raise questions. Partly, that would be because the "entry level" suit uses Chinese fabric. Assuming, though, that the higher levels (A-F) aren't Chinese, the price still looks low. I'd bet the actual cutting and sewing is done in China also. In the FAQ answer to how it is so affordable, the answer mentions being a "profitable worldwide enterprise." Whether that matters and - even if it does - whether it's justified by the lower price, depends on who's buying, I guess.

EDIT:

Just read the second, older post on the OTC blog linked above ... which says fairly explicitly that the suits are cut and sewed in China.

 

Regardless of all that, I just read about them over at Off The Cuff. His review of their product can be found here: https://offthecuffdc.com/category/suits Since they have a location here in DC, I have been considering them myself.

If you are a "District dude" (their terminology) and want a suit from men who don't wear ties and fit their customers while wearing jeans, ( propersuit owner, not the customer) , go right ahead. Watch a fitting: https://www.thrillist.com/style/washington-dc/proper-suit-now-in-dc_bespoke-gear_suits Just not my style.

 

If you are a "District dude" (their terminology) and want a suit from men who don't wear ties and fit their customers while wearing jeans, ( propersuit owner, not the customer) , go right ahead. Watch a fitting: https://www.thrillist.com/style/washington-dc/proper-suit-now-in-dc_bespoke-gear_suits Just not my style.

That video isn't doing Proper Suit any favors, at least not with people like me. Hipsters ... maybe.

 

I work in the tech industry, so I see that style quite a bit - that doesn't bother me. My main priority when purchasing a suit is quality and fit, two things that Chris at OTC seems to think were delivered. I read his blog quite often and find it to be educational on an array of style topics - much like our own Andy

 

They probably use the word "bespoke" because, as far as I know, their makers create a pattern from scratch.

 

FWIW, I've seen guys wearing suits from them that aren't rocking the very fitted/narrow lapel look and they look fine. Certainly, my friend isn't complaining about the fit of his suit, and he's anything but model thin.

 

If you are a "District dude" (their terminology) and want a suit from men who don't wear ties and fit their customers while wearing jeans, ( propersuit owner, not the customer) , go right ahead. Watch a fitting: https://www.thrillist.com/style/washington-dc/proper-suit-now-in-dc_bespoke-gear_suits Just not my style.

When I saw the posts from PS show up here and took a glance at the website I was open to them having a clue, after watching the video I have my doubts.
Rather than ask the customer what they want, they are telling him what he needs. In this case thin, tight, short and ties obviously aren't even part of the equation. I'm guessing that the suits are made offshore vs in NY, anyone know?

 

I'm guessing that the suits are made offshore vs in NY, anyone know?

I also guessed that ... the lower of the two post in the "Off the Cuff" blog someone else linked above confirms the guess.

"Both gentleman have spent several years in China, learning the tailoring business - and the language - from the ground up. Working with technical and operations experts, they created a state-of-the-art facility which marries old world hand tailoring with laser guided automation."

Assuming that's correct. The blogger has been enlisted, I think, into a little puffery, but the basic fact of the production facility being located in China seems pretty reliable.

 

I found it interesting that they have an office/store/agent, (I highly suspect the latter) here in Portland, Oregon. I called them and only had the chance to leave a message so I sent an e-mail instead.

While I am interested I'm also a bit skeptical in that;

1. They would like you to give them a credit card so they can charge $150.- for an appointment. (refundable towards a suit.)

2. I have had bespoke suits and sport jackets made and after reading their site it seems to me that this is most likely MTM rather than true bespoke. I suspect that many of their customers have no idea what the difference is.

3. I am not interested in dealing with an agent. There is not a storefront on NW 23rd Avenue here in Portland called "Proper Suit Company," and if I am to depend on someone from this store on NW23rd to do the measurements, knowing full well that they could not have been an agent for Proper Suit Company for very long, and thus have very little experience in how these garments a sized, I am not going to chance it knowing that they make it clear there will be no refunds.

If, on the other hand, they are simply the place where a representative from Proper Suit Company goes from time to time to measure customers I am more than willing to learn more.

We'll see.

 

Fellas - sorry my 'ProperSuit' account got booted from admin. I learned the hard lesson not to include URLS!

I will try to answer all questions; I am one of the founders of Proper Suit.

@arkirshner - yes we do import our shoulder pads from Germany. I used to be the factory auditor in China for 4+ and worked on deals involving BR, FCUK, HUGO, etc which exposed me to the best places to source raw materials
@starch - entry level is Chinese / AB are lesser known Italian brands such as Filarte or Ruyi, some Togna and VBC / C-D are mostly LoroPiana, Fintes, Guabello / E-F are Zegna
@starch - low price achieved bc. we are the OEM manufacturer for tailors across the country (read we provide suits to their clients without labels) / savings achieved through advances in technology and factory setting of bespoke
@arkirshner - yes Thrillist video is a little hipster at the direction of the editor to appeal to their demographic; I personally prefer full suit and tie
@127.27 Mhz - I personally trained Lance Miller and although he is not one of the founders he is skilled and earned the right to sell Proper Suit. Feel free to visit his store free of charge and inquire about Proper.
@all - China has a bad perception for low quality and certainly online brands out there aren't helping the cause. There is some of the best quality there - even better than USA. Why? Demand that affords them to get the right QC and machinery place and lower priced SE Asian manufacturers that put pressure on them to do so. Our suits will beat any USA, Euro, or China made 'MTM' suit in the USA priced under $1500, period.

Does this help clear up any confusion?

 

I attempted to send a reply to your private mail but I got a message saying that either you do not accept private messages or the ability to do so was taken away by someone here at AAAC. I sent a reply to the gentleman who sent me an e-mail message that through standard e-mail. I also tried to call the 208 area code number but only got a voice mail.

Best regards,

 

Fellas - sorry my 'ProperSuit' account got booted from admin. I learned the hard lesson not to include URLS!

I will try to answer all questions; I am one of the founders of Proper Suit.

@arkirshner - yes we do import our shoulder pads from Germany. I used to be the factory auditor in China for 4+ and worked on deals involving BR, FCUK, HUGO, etc which exposed me to the best places to source raw materials
@starch - entry level is Chinese / AB are lesser known Italian brands such as Filarte or Ruyi, some Togna and VBC / C-D are mostly LoroPiana, Fintes, Guabello / E-F are Zegna
@starch - low price achieved bc. we are the OEM manufacturer for tailors across the country (read we provide suits to their clients without labels) / savings achieved through advances in technology and factory setting of bespoke
@arkirshner - yes Thrillist video is a little hipster at the direction of the editor to appeal to their demographic; I personally prefer full suit and tie
@127.27 Mhz - I personally trained Lance Miller and although he is not one of the founders he is skilled and earned the right to sell Proper Suit. Feel free to visit his store free of charge and inquire about Proper.
@all - China has a bad perception for low quality and certainly online brands out there aren't helping the cause. There is some of the best quality there - even better than USA. Why? Demand that affords them to get the right QC and machinery place and lower priced SE Asian manufacturers that put pressure on them to do so. Our suits will beat any USA, Euro, or China made 'MTM' suit in the USA priced under $1500, period.

Does this help clear up any confusion?

Not to be nit picking, but your site said "soft shoulders" not "shoulder pads".

You have not explained why you charge $150 just for an "appointment". Yes, you will give a $150 credit toward a suit, but if a man comes to an "appointment" and finds nothing he wants in the way of fabric, or after he can see it in person, simply does not care for your house style, or after discussing the matter just does feel simpatico with fitter, you keep the money. I am not aware of any true bespoke establishment that charges a man to talk to a fitter.

Here we get to the question of where puffing ends and deception begins. Yes, the MTM lobby convinced a UK trade board that any garment made to order can, in the UK, be called "bespoke". On your site you proclaim, "We are the bespoke suit solution for the world's elite". Perhaps the world's elite have never heard of Anderson & Sheppard or Richard Anderson, but the men here have. To the "world's elite" you may be a bespoke firm, but to those who have a passing acquaintance with fine clothing, you are not.

If you peruse this site you will find that a number of MTM makers have made a suit for Andy who then reviewed it. Self promotion is easy, but if you wish to be taken seriously, make a suit for Andy.

 

I will try to answer all questions; I am one of the founders of Proper Suit.
@all - China has a bad perception for low quality and certainly online brands out there aren't helping the cause. There is some of the best quality there - even better than USA. Why? Demand that affords them to get the right QC and machinery place and lower priced SE Asian manufacturers that put pressure on them to do so. Our suits will beat any USA, Euro, or China made 'MTM' suit in the USA priced under $1500, period.

China can definitely crank out decent products, the problem is, and has been, to do so continually deliver the same product without having to peer over the shoulders of those doing the work at every step of the process. I've experienced this with anything from international firms that set up shop there to folks that commission runs of manufacturing (providing materials and specific directions on the process). A short cuts are seemingly consistently introduced and the quality of the work drops at some point. In order for it to work companies have resorted to keeping full time onsite country of sale QC staff on the floor to oversee things.
Exclusive of this are the firms that represent themselves in the US with traveling sales reps and are selling their name (tailors out of HK).

 

Been talking to McGregor for a while recently, and he answered a few questions.

The reason there's no Proper Suit store front at the address indicated is because it's done in his friend's (the aforementioned Lance Miller) shop Threads Count, in a sort of "speakeasy" set up in the back. They want people who have been referred to go there, not just random people wanting to check out what "Proper Suit" means on a store sign. Similarly, there's no sign for "Proper Suit" outside of their office in NYC or showroom in LA. They don't want to do advertising, just word of mouth, the website, and the Facebook\Twitter pages since that keeps costs low.

As for house style, they don't just make modern fitted styles for skinny people. I was worried about that, as I'd want something with a trim but not fashionably slim fit (a la Mad Men) and a higher rise. He said they've made suits like that or even looser for those who are in business. They also give you lapel width choices, narrow to rather wide in some cases.

They've actually tried contacting Andy about making him a suit and would have no problem doing so. I'm not sure what's come of that if anything.

Didn't get to ask him about other things before he had to go but...

As for the $150 deposit, it seems they don't charge just to talk to a representative casually and find out what's available, it's for people who are definitely getting measured and making orders. As you'll see above, Richard even invited 127.72 MHz to come in and chat free of charge. It's probably to make sure that they're not doing a full fitting and creating an order for someone who seems serious about getting a suit only to have them go, "Oh... nevermind," a few days later. That seems reasonable to me. From the website:

Why do you charge a $150 deposit for the fitting?
The $150 deposit goes towards the purchase of the bespoke garment. Our tailor's time is very valuable so we want to make sure there is intent to join. You cannot lock up a fitting without payment. If you are unhappy with the level of personal service or quality of materials we will no doubt gladly refund your deposit.

As for bespoke, I think they make a new pattern for each customer instead of adjusting a pre-existing pattern. That would be fair game to call it bespoke, as by definition that's what differentiates it from MTM. If they are not doing that, then I agree they are not bespoke and should not call their product as such. Obviously, they're not the quality level of Savile Row. Nor would I expect that for $650. Yeah, it might be puffing a bit to say it's the bespoke solution for the world's elite. It would be better to market it as the bespoke solution for the everyman. Still, with all their cockiness, I would hope it would be something competently constructed and well-fitting.

 

Thanks Jovan.

:thumbs-up:

 

Not impressed to date! And you know how important first impressions are.

There seems to be two gentlemen fronting this operation, Richard and McGregor. Richard is the one who joined and posted unauthorized advertising. I deleted it and sent him an e-mail explaining the Rules (which he should have read). He never responded to that e-mail but signed up with a new Username and posted again! You can not have two accounts here.

McGregor contacted me. I responded and gave him some options. I have not heard back from him!

So either these guys are totally ignorant of common, decent business practices and ethics or a real scam production. We'll see.

 

Sidestepping the Propersuit issue here. Personally, I'd go w/ a MTM from a known and respected suit maker such as Samuelsohn or HF. I've had personal experience with both and recommend them (and a store with an excellent tailor). After all, it's a wedding and you probably won't be getting married more than a few times.

 

Andy: I beg to differ on this. Richard and McGregor have so far been nothing but gentlemen to me. From what I can gather they have offered to make you a suit to try.