Hi ncdobson,

The only experience I have is sort of indirect. Some of Loake's shoes are made in Portugal (and they make the Herring Shoes Graduate Line, some of which I own). I can only speak to those but I find them to be fairly decent quality shoes but I imagine that they are made to the strict guidelines Mr. Herring seems to have for his shoes so I can't say if they are typical of Portugese made shoes.

 

I've a pair of 1883 brand comfort bluchers, of a welted design, that were crafted in Portugal. They are not all that pretty and are not suitable for business wear(IMHO), but they do feel good on the feet over the course of a long day and they have proven to be quite durable. I'n not even sure if the company is still in business?

 

Portugal made shoes are less expensive than Italian, French, UK, or USA made shoes. About 20 years ago, when the Ecco brand started selling to the US market , most of the line was made in Portugal. More recently, to reduce costs, Ecco started sourcing their shoes in China.
Mephisto came to the US market about 20 years ago with shoes made in France, but in recent years , to reduce costs, switched production from France to Portugal.
Of the various footwear readily available within the USA, I rank country of origin quality as follows:

China
Vietnam
Indonesia
Taiwan
Brazil
Portugal
Italy
UK
USA

 

Thanks for all of the input. If I end up ordering any Ramalhoni shoes I'll be sure to post a review.

Nick D.

 

Portugal made shoes are less expensive than Italian, French, UK, or USA made shoes. About 20 years ago, when the Ecco brand started selling to the US market , most of the line was made in Portugal. More recently, to reduce costs, Ecco started sourcing their shoes in China.
Mephisto came to the US market about 20 years ago with shoes made in France, but in recent years , to reduce costs, switched production from France to Portugal.
Of the various footwear readily available within the USA, I rank country of origin quality as follows:

China
Vietnam
Indonesia
Taiwan
Brazil
Portugal
Italy
UK
USA

I agree with your rankings, but where does India fit in?

 

Between Taiwan and Brazil.

I agree with your rankings, but where does India fit in?

 

Of the various footwear readily available within the USA, I rank country of origin quality as follows:

China
Vietnam
Indonesia
Taiwan
Brazil
Portugal
Italy
UK
USA

Presumably that list is in reverse order. Agree with it in broad terms, save for the relative rankings of UK and USA.

I'm not chauvinist when it comes to buying clothes, but have to say that in my opinion Northampton-made English shoes are the finest in the world.

On a recent visit to the US (a country I love, by the way) I made a point of checking out Allen Edmonds shoes, which are not generally available in Britain, but which I have seen praised in this forum. I have to say I was very disappointed by their indifferent quality, which seemed comparable to mid-range Loakes or Barkers. They certainly didn't match up to Church's, Trickers or Crockett and Jones, the most highly regarded RTW brands in the UK (I exclude from my comparison such stellar makers as Cleverley, Lobb or Edward Green, because it would be unfair).

I insist on English shoes because I know I'm buying the best.

 

USA made shoes are superior because of more extensive width offerings than the UK manufacturers.

Presumably that list is in reverse order. Agree with it in broad terms, save for the relative rankings of UK and USA.

I'm not chauvinist when it comes to buying clothes, but have to say that in my opinion Northampton-made English shoes are the finest in the world.

On a recent visit to the US (a country I love, by the way) I made a point of checking out Allen Edmonds shoes, which are not generally available in Britain, but which I have seen praised in this forum. I have to say I was very disappointed by their indifferent quality, which seemed comparable to mid-range Loakes or Barkers. They certainly didn't match up to Church's, Trickers or Crockett and Jones, the most highly regarded RTW brands in the UK (I exclude from my comparison such stellar makers as Cleverley, Lobb or Edward Green, because it would be unfair).

I insist on English shoes because I know I'm buying the best.

 

USA made shoes are superior because of more extensive width offerings than the UK manufacturers.

No, that just means they are wider, possibly because wide feet are more prevalent in America. Their intrinsic quality, in my opinion, is generally lower.

Not to say they're poor quality, but I wouldn't buy them.

 

Presumably that list is in reverse order. Agree with it in broad terms, save for the relative rankings of UK and USA.

I'm not chauvinist when it comes to buying clothes, but have to say that in my opinion Northampton-made English shoes are the finest in the world.

On a recent visit to the US (a country I love, by the way) I made a point of checking out Allen Edmonds shoes, which are not generally available in Britain, but which I have seen praised in this forum. I have to say I was very disappointed by their indifferent quality, which seemed comparable to mid-range Loakes or Barkers. They certainly didn't match up to Church's, Trickers or Crockett and Jones, the most highly regarded RTW brands in the UK (I exclude from my comparison such stellar makers as Cleverley, Lobb or Edward Green, because it would be unfair).

I insist on English shoes because I know I'm buying the best.

I agree with you, UK leads the world. However the list was of shoes "readily available within the USA". Unfortunately, other than a few locations in a few large cities, UK shoes cannot be seen, let alone tried on, and are available only through mail order.

 

but have to say that in my opinion Northampton-made English shoes are the finest in the world.

As a general class, I would have to agree. For many years it was understood among those who aspire to attire that English shoes were best, except as pertains to the availability of widths. While decent shoes, AE, and even Alden, tend on the average to not be as carefully made and finished, or to use quite as good materials. Are there exceptions? Boundless!

 

Portugal made shoes are less expensive than Italian, French, UK, or USA made shoes. About 20 years ago, when the Ecco brand started selling to the US market , most of the line was made in Portugal. More recently, to reduce costs, Ecco started sourcing their shoes in China.
Mephisto came to the US market about 20 years ago with shoes made in France, but in recent years , to reduce costs, switched production from France to Portugal.
Of the various footwear readily available within the USA, I rank country of origin quality as follows:

China
Vietnam
Indonesia
Taiwan
Brazil
Portugal
Italy
UK
USA

It's obviously impossible to make an overarching judgment of quality from a very small sample size, but the pictures on the website are pretty detailed and look very nice to my inexpert eye:

Longwing Bluchers

Double monks.

The prices are higher than AE & many RTW English shoes. So, would you say that 300€ is a fair price based on the information we have?

Thanks again,

Nick D.

 

I agree with you, UK leads the world. However the list was of shoes "readily available within the USA". Unfortunately, other than a few locations in a few large cities, UK shoes cannot be seen, let alone tried on, and are available only through mail order.

+1. I live in the fifth-largest city in the United States and Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren are only places to get English shoes. Not even Neiman Marcus or Saks carries English shoes. It's a sad, sad world.

 

+1. I live in the fifth-largest city in the United States and Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren are only places to get English shoes. Not even Neiman Marcus or Saks carries English shoes. It's a sad, sad world.

Accepted that that must be a problem if you live in the US. However, Herring Shoes and Shipton and Heneage both have super-efficient mail order services, though it will, sadly, bump up the price.

With reference to my earlier post, what surprised me about the Allen Edmonds shoes I saw during my recent US visit was the lack of attention to detail. While the uppers were reasonable in appearance, the soles and heels were as rough as anything - almost an "out of sight, out of mind" impression. You'd never see that even in a low-end pair of English shoes.

 

I agree with you, UK leads the world. However the list was of shoes "readily available within the USA". Unfortunately, other than a few locations in a few large cities, UK shoes cannot be seen, let alone tried on, and are available only through mail order.

I have to say that I'd assumed, by virtue of the UK figuring in the list at all, that English shoes are available within the USA.

 

Width sizing availability is a sign of brand integrity, a true commitment by the manufacturer towards proper fit.
No width offerings, as is prevalent among UK manufacturers, is a short cut, signaling style rather than substance.
Keep in mind that correct fit is essential towards recognizing the support , stability, and posture health benefits of a pair of shoes.

No, that just means they are wider, possibly because wide feet are more prevalent in America. Their intrinsic quality, in my opinion, is generally lower.

Not to say they're poor quality, but I wouldn't buy them.

 

The shoes in the photographs look a little rough. Not in the class of finishing details, or leather quality, of Alden or Allen Edmonds.
Mostly though, I would be concerned that a small Portugal factory does not have shoe lasts designed for the USA market. The shape of the lasts used for the Portugal domestic market is different from last shapes commonly used for the USA market.
Portugal does have a long history of shoemaking, and lots of small factories with generations of families taking pride in their work. But, making saleable shoes for the US market is a challenge. Company's like Mephisto and Ecco, which have used Portugal for sourcing shoe production, did so with intensive supervision of the factory work. Those large brands do things like bringing their own shoe lasts to the factories where they want assembly production, or at least their own designs for lasts. Sometimes the branded company sources their own leather and have the factory use that leather for the shoes. A large brand will set up an office (near the factory) and staff it with their own employees to supervise production techniques.

It's obviously impossible to make an overarching judgment of quality from a very small sample size, but the pictures on the website are pretty detailed and look very nice to my inexpert eye:

Longwing Bluchers

Double monks.

The prices are higher than AE & many RTW English shoes. So, would you say that 300€ is a fair price based on the information we have?

Thanks again,

Nick D.

 

No, that just means they are wider, possibly because wide feet are more prevalent in America. Their intrinsic quality, in my opinion, is generally lower.

Not to say they're poor quality, but I wouldn't buy them.

Both wider and narrower widths can be found from Allen Edmonds and Alden. But they are definitely not anywhere as good as many of the shoes that are made in England. I put the US below Italy (which makes some wonderful and horrible shoes).

Thanks to Brooks Brothers, great English shoes beyond the quality of Allen Edmonds can easily be found in the US. I also have a wonderful pair of Portuguese boots from Brooks Brothers. It's one of the most comfortable pairs of shoes I own.

 

Width sizing availability is a sign of brand integrity,

Huh?

Shoes that fit well are important, but have nothing to do with the quality of manufacture. The lack of different widths in the UK shoes has nothing to do with whatever brand integrity is supposed to mean. To me, brand integrity means making an honest shoe as well as you can for what you charge. In that regard, many UK shoes are superior to anything made in the U.S.

Until quite recently, the U.S. and UK shoe markets were entirely different. The U.S. RTW industry for both shoes and clothing has always had a much wider range of sizing available compared to the UK. In that sense it has been superior. But that's about it.

I wear a size 11D in U.S. shoes and 10 in UK shoes. And the UK shoes fit me better. But anything short of bespoke is not going to offer me or you proper fit, it is all going to be a compromise. My feet are more than a 1/2 size different. I split the difference. The left shoe will just fit, the right will be a little long. I have an average to slightly above average width across the metatarsals, but a moderately narrow heel. Both Alden and AE make a lowest (Actually highest) common denominator broad heel. I.e., a heel that will fit the widest heel likely encountered in a given width. Most UK makers have lasts with a narrower heel. They will tend to fit me better. Does that indicate greater integrity? Not necessarily, it's just a different, but better practice.

 

Look at it this way.
When a manufacturer (or retailer) commits to offering a shoe in multiple widths, that company is making an investment towards truly serving the consumer with a proper fit. A second, third, fourth, fifth , or sixth width offering means a unique last and upper pattern cutting dye, and more, is required for each size/width combination. This is a significant expense for the manufacturer as well as the retail store willing to stock widths.
Width sizing represents the highest standard of footwear, and it is generally found at the top US manufacturers, Alden and Allen Edmonds.
The concept of proper fit was born decades ago when US manufactuers and retailers worked together to offer consumers a correct fit. At that time it was common for each large city to have several retailers stock walls filled with one shoe, that shoe coming in AA, B, C, D, EE, EEE widths.
And there were several US manufactuers producing those widths.
But now the shoe industry has changed. By the late 70's US manufactuers were giving way to cheaper imports, and US consumers developed a taste for lower cost disposable footwear. Instead of one shoe offered in multiple widths retailers filled their stock room shelves with six different shoe styles , each only offered in medium width. The concept of true fitting was replaced by large selections of imported single width flashy fashion styles.
So, the US shoe industry, both on the manufacturing and retailing side, with the exception of Alden and AE, has sold out substance (proper fit) in favor of imported single width fashion styles. The UK manufacturers were always, and continue to be about their own style (nice leathers, finishing details etc...) rather than substance.

Huh?

Shoes that fit well are important, but have nothing to do with the quality of manufacture. The lack of different widths in the UK shoes has nothing to do with whatever brand integrity is supposed to mean. To me, brand integrity means making an honest shoe as well as you can for what you charge. In that regard, many UK shoes are superior to anything made in the U.S.

Until quite recently, the U.S. and UK shoe markets were entirely different. The U.S. RTW industry for both shoes and clothing has always had a much wider range of sizing available compared to the UK. In that sense it has been superior. But that's about it.

I wear a size 11D in U.S. shoes and 10 in UK shoes. And the UK shoes fit me better. But anything short of bespoke is not going to offer me or you proper fit, it is all going to be a compromise. My feet are more than a 1/2 size different. I split the difference. The left shoe will just fit, the right will be a little long. I have an average to slightly above average width across the metatarsals, but a moderately narrow heel. Both Alden and AE make a lowest (Actually highest) common denominator broad heel. I.e., a heel that will fit the widest heel likely encountered in a given width. Most UK makers have lasts with a narrower heel. They will tend to fit me better. Does that indicate greater integrity? Not necessarily, it's just a different, but better practice.

 

(nice leathers, finishing details etc...) rather than substance.

Uh, that's called fine quality, and is the substance. Would it have been better if the UK RTW footwear industry had evolved 100 years ago with the same practice of offering a greater range of widths, sure, but that has nothing to do with quality of the shoes. And comparing fine UK foortwear with off-shore junk is just silly.

 

I wanted to say 'Thank you' to Flanderian. As ever, your erudite posts always make interesting points (though I fear we, as a whole, may have strayed from the OP). It is great to learn more about the heritage of other countries when it comes to footwear and your posts have been clear and well-stated where others may well have baffled me with very insistent but...unique interpretations of the English language.

Nick (OP), I should have mentioned earlier that I find the Herring Graduate Line (made in Portugal) to be quite comfortable and well-made shoes and my father and uncle, not dress shoe wearers by trade (they are restaurant owners who spend a lot of time in both the kitchen and dining rooms) find them to be well made and comfortable. I would certainly buy others from that line if they fit my needs (though I tend to wear AEs, the higher-end Herring branded shoes, Loake 1880s, and my Church's more often these days). The only reason I would not buy Portugese shoes would not be because of their quality but I do favour shoes made in England due to their styles and shapes (AEs are the only US shoes I would consider in the 'proper shoe' category).

 

Nick (OP), I should have mentioned earlier that I find the Herring Graduate Line (made in Portugal) to be quite comfortable and well-made shoes and my father and uncle, not dress shoe wearers by trade (they are restaurant owners who spend a lot of time in both the kitchen and dining rooms) find them to be well made and comfortable. I would certainly buy others from that line if they fit my needs (though I tend to wear AEs, the higher-end Herring branded shoes, Loake 1880s, and my Church's more often these days). The only reason I would not buy Portugese shoes would not be because of their quality but I do favour shoes made in England due to their styles and shapes (AEs are the only US shoes I would consider in the 'proper shoe' category).

Thanks for the information (and getting back to my OP). The majority of Herring Graduates cost £100, with a couple of models as high as £115. Those prices come out to approximately €115 and €130, respectively. So, the Ramalhoni shoes at €300 look to be wildly overpriced, unless they really are of much higher quality.

Thanks again,

Nick D. (Homerist)

 

Nick,

Not a problem. They're pretty decent shoes, though some are I presume polished binder but I don't have problems with that if they're done well and they're very comfortable. I feel these are and are my basic 'go to' shoes when I'm not wearing my AEs or Loake shoes. Plus, as I mentioned, Adrian Herring and Herring Shoes have these made up to their specifications (so I think they're a cut above the regular 'basic' shoes). I don't think I got a chance to see the shoes you mentioned though so I can't comment. I must have missed all of that somehow!

 

Sorry Guys, I've been away from this forum! Can't read them all!...
The portuguese Goodyear welt is absolutely the same as the american or the british.
The same machinery, and process is used. At least in my brand it is. They have a leather welt sown around the shoes the cork filling, the steel insert, pretty much everything. As for the price of my particular brand I can accept it's a little bit steep, but it's the quality of the leathers and the goodyear welt that drives the price up.
I can't advertise them here, but DM me if you wanna know more about them.
I can say that the next season's collection that will be finished pretty soon is gonna be awesome! I'll finally have horse leather, and a brand new leather that I got from a factory in Italy - Lama (softer that cordovan, but with the same thickness... and also new models on the way, 6 of them to be exact, to add to the existing 4...
That's why I've been absent ... lot's of work..
Cheers...
Miguel Ramalhoni