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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please rank the following in terms of quality and price.
- Joseph Turner
- Charles Tyrwhitt
- TM Lewin
- Hawes and Curtis

Also, please recommend any affordable shirtmakers of the similar persuasion. Thanks. Atlas
 

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Turner is not London-based. They're a mail-order operation in Yorkshire.

JT shirts are ho-hum. The fabrics are fine, and I like the body fit (identical to a CT "Classic" fit) but the collars are somehow undistinguished. The two shirts I bought from them, I had Mike Maldonado of www.collarreplacement.com work on: He replaced the original collars w/ white collars modeled on T&A collars. JT ties are good quality, but often a bit loud. They run pretty wide, too, just so you know.

CT I'd rank slightly above TML, but I have used both company's products for years now. My word on TML shirts is stick w/ the poplins (Lewin 100s) and avoid their fancy weaves, which I have found shrink too much and wear relatively poorly.

H&C belongs where it is in your original list.
 

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Why so down on H&C? I have never ordered from them but was about to. Let me know your experience. Thanks.
Huge tentlike cut, don't launder well, fabrics don't wear well. H&C is a famous old Jermyn Street name (the original made shirts and ties for that well-dressed idiot the Duke of Windsor) that's been revived as a "brand" selling utter tat.

Harvie & Hudson is better than any of the four names you asked after, fwtw.
 

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Coles shirts are (or until recently were) made in Northern Ireland, by Glenaden (which last I heard was in administration--that's British for bankruptcy). Other than that, I think if you want UK-made RTW shirts, you're looking at paying $250+ per shirt for Turnbull & Asser shirts.

H&H and H&K are coy about it, but they offshore now too. Pretty much everyone on Jermyn Street does except for T&A, which not long ago made a conscious decision to keep its manufacturing in Britain and raise prices accordingly--they are going after the high end in a trade where others have moved heavily toward discounting and offshoring.

If you happen to be in London in January or July, you can pick up T&A shirts on sale (usually in a 3-fer bundle discount) at the Jermyn St shop or in Harrod's (the al-Fayad family owns both T&A and the famous dept store). Other than that, they don't do much discounting, though given the catastrophic state that most luxury retailing is in nowadays, one wonders if that will change.

PS: fwiw, I've seen CT shirts labeled as having been made in Peru, Egypt, Romania, and (disastrously) China (dropped after complaints about quality problems). I've never seen one made in India, Pakistan, Turkey, or Indonesia, not that I'd be all that surprised if they had used those countries.

PPS: The topics of "English" shirts--how good they are, where they are made, the various brands, etc. have been raked over extensively on this board. The search function is your friend. Hint, hint :icon_smile_wink:
 

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Coles shirts are (or until recently were) made in Northern Ireland, by Glenaden (which last I heard was in administration--that's British for bankruptcy). Other than that, I think if you want UK-made RTW shirts, you're looking at paying $250+ per shirt for Turnbull & Asser shirts.

H&H and H&K are coy about it, but they offshore now too. Pretty much everyone on Jermyn Street does except for T&A, which not long ago made a conscious decision to keep its manufacturing in Britain and raise prices accordingly--they are going after the high end in a trade where others have moved heavily toward discounting and offshoring.

If you happen to be in London in January or July, you can pick up T&A shirts on sale (usually in a 3-fer bundle discount) at the Jermyn St shop or in Harrod's (the al-Fayad family owns both T&A and the famous dept store). Other than that, they don't do much discounting, though given the catastrophic state that most luxury retailing is in nowadays, one wonders if that will change.

PS: fwiw, I've seen CT shirts labeled as having been made in Peru, Egypt, Romania, and (disastrously) China (dropped after complaints about quality problems). I've never seen one made in India, Pakistan, Turkey, or Indonesia, not that I'd be all that surprised if they had used those countries.

PPS: The topics of "English" shirts--how good they are, where they are made, the various brands, etc. have been raked over extensively on this board. The search function is your friend. Hint, hint :icon_smile_wink:
An excellent post that really gets to the heart of the matter. However I'd just like to add that English-made RTW shirts are still available from Budd (£70-ish usually but some on offer for £55 right now), Dege and Skinner (again £55 at the moment) and Rayner and Sturges via Alexander Boyd (prices from £65). On Jermyn Street itself Emma Willis has her shirts made by Rayner and Sturges again but charges a huge premium for them and New and Lingwood still have a few English-made shirts in their range (look for the made in England label on the collar). These are often reduced to around £35 each at the very end of the sale periods in summer and winter but the prices are not reflected on their website.

Chris.
 

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An excellent post that really gets to the heart of the matter. However I'd just like to add that English-made RTW shirts are still available from Budd (£70-ish usually but some on offer for £55 right now), Dege and Skinner (again £55 at the moment) and Rayner and Sturges via Alexander Boyd (prices from £65). On Jermyn Street itself Emma Willis has her shirts made by Rayner and Sturges again but charges a huge premium for them and New and Lingwood still have a few English-made shirts in their range (look for the made in England label on the collar). These are often reduced to around £35 each at the very end of the sale periods in summer and winter but the prices are not reflected on their website.

Chris.
Yes, that's true about Budd, Willis, et al. Also, Drake's is selling RTW shirts online now, tho' I'm unsure where they're made and they retail for 125 quid (a bit less when you take out VAT) plus 15 quid shipping to the USA. N&L shirts are probably a good value on sale, tho' I wouldn't know as they don't do my size in RTW.

So the point remains that even these RTW shirts are generally going to be substantially or even exorbitantly pricier than what the OP is asking about (and bringing up highly expensive MTM alternatives is of course irrelevant).

CT and TML take a number of knocks on this board, but they're IMO a long sight better than what's on offer at most US department stores, and for about the same money.

As for CT's collars, I happen to like a relatively firm collar; I guess it's down to preference. The moral for the OP should perhaps be to try one shirt from each of the firms about which he's curious; that's the only real way to tell which if any of said shirts might suit him, anyway.
 

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So the point remains that even these RTW shirts are generally going to be substantially or even exorbitantly pricier than what the OP is asking about (and bringing up highly expensive MTM alternatives is of course irrelevant).

CT and TML take a number of knocks on this board, but they're IMO a long sight better than what's on offer at most US department stores, and for about the same money.
Hello,
Very true once again. However Pakeman, Catto and Carter's sale shirts might be just the ticket:

https://www.pakeman.co.uk/products.php?cat=209

Probably not made in England but they do have MOP buttons etc. Prices from about £19-£24.50 for the sale items.

Chris.
 

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I found Lewin shirt collars shrink a lot. Never bought since. CT is a similar sort of operation but I have not purchased from them.
I bought about 6 shirts from TML last year. I am giving them rotation but no changes or shrinking till now. They are little bit hard to iron, but I have noticed no other problem. I wash them by hand and iron by myself, or get them washed in local loundry if I am in North Iraq. I cannot give you any information about their longevity because of short time I am wearing them. I am satisfied with TML shirts.
 

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Huge tentlike cut, don't launder well, fabrics don't wear well. H&C is a famous old Jermyn Street name (the original made shirts and ties for that well-dressed idiot the Duke of Windsor) that's been revived as a "brand" selling utter tat.

Harvie & Hudson is better than any of the four names you asked after, fwtw.
LOL. Good observation, PJC.
 

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FWIW I have a few Hawes & Curtis shirts (the slim-fit variety) and I like them. They do have fairly stiff collars, and aren't the most robust fabrics -- true -- but they fit me well, look good, and were pretty cheap.

Second the recommendation on Sean O'Flynn. I have several of his shirts and they are great (incidentally, it's interesting that he's been getting a fair amount of press these days in the usual fashion rags - selfishly, I hope this doesn't gum up the works with orders). I wouldn't add him to the OP's list of "affordable shirtmakers of the similar persuasion" though, for the reasons previously mentioned.
 

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What about Herbie Frogg? Where are their shirts done? (Don’t know a thing about them, just walk by them every time I’m in London on my way to H&H or T&A…)
 
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