Park Avenues With A "Tux"

9413 Views 68 Replies 33 Participants Last post by Taliesin, Jan 31, 2009

clfrucel

Discussion Starter · Jan 29, 2009

Hello all,

So in a few months I'm going to be a groomsman in my friend's wedding. He has chosen a black "tux" with a black 2B notch-lapel jacket, black vest, and black necktie - not exactly my cup of tea, but fortunately it's not my wedding either.

I'm not going to bother trying to change his mind on what he picked out, but I would prefer to avoid wearing the square-toed patent leather shoes he selected as well (just can't stand the square-toed look). I recently bought a pair of Park Avenues in black - I'd much prefer to wear those, but would they be appropriate for such an outfit? (would they be formal enough?)

Thank you for you response!

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Beau Nash

· #61 · Jan 30, 2009

ottawa_adam said:
Why does everyone say it's "her" wedding. Isn't it both their wedding? What about rules of equality where these decisions should be shared. Again, wedding are silly. If someone remembers, ten years from now, that the OP was wearing the wrong shoes, then SHE has the problem, not the OP!

If you review the original post, it's not his wedding. It's his friend's. Are you really arguing that, after the bride and groom have decided what the wedding party will wear, someone should wear something different, especially without asking them? Would the same rule apply if, say, the wedding started mid-afternoon and, despite the couple's desire for everyone to wear dinner suits, the OP showed up in a business suit instead? It seems from the above that you would say that, since his choice is more correct, their objection would be their problem, not his.

I think the OP did nicely by asking about the shoes and getting the go-ahead for wearing his PAs.

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Blueboy1938

· #62 · Jan 31, 2009

Sheesh, indeed!

Taliesin said:
Some people take this stuff so seriously! Sheesh, it's just clothing at a wedding. I happen to know that the vast majority of real Americans who responded to a scientific survey I conducted do not notice, or care about, the difference between square-toe shoes and AE Park Avenues. People on this forum need to remember that at the end of the day, we all just do what works for us, and we should all accept that the deliberate choice of a square toed shoe or a Park Avenue, or patent leather pumps for that matter, is based on our own individual style, not the "rules" of a bunch of Internet clothing forum participants. Smile.

Taliesin

I'm not sure why you're missing the point, here: The OP is not a wedding guest, he is, as has been pointed out before, a member of the wedding party. That means he will be in a lot of the pictures that the bride will see for as long as she lives!

This is not about what "a bunch of Internet clothing forum participants" want, it is about what she wants at what is still regarded as the "most important day of her life". Contrary to you, the OP has come to realize that and is doing the right thing by clearing his footwear choice with the bride and groom and not "a bunch of Internet clothing forum participants" that, of course, includes you. He got good advice, and he's following it.

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ksinc

· #63 · Jan 31, 2009 (Edited)

ottawa_adam said:
Why does everyone say it's "her" wedding. Isn't it both their wedding? What about rules of equality where these decisions should be shared. Again, wedding are silly. If someone remembers, ten years from now, that the OP was wearing the wrong shoes, then SHE has the problem, not the OP!

Well, that's a fair question. The clarification is that it is their marriage; HER wedding. Most men don't grow up fantasizing about their wedding ceremony and most girls do. Most men don't plan the wedding for years and have scrap books with ideas for the wedding and reception. Most women, even single women that aren't dating anyone, have their wedding planned out. There are clearly obvious exceptions.

Most women will remember everything that happens on their wedding day and during the ceremony and reception.

The key is to ask happily married men these questions and just take their advice and don't argue. If you're looking for logic, you've already lost the game

The OP said the groom picked the groomsmen's outfits ... and maybe he did. The OP says he asked them and thinks they don't mind because that's what they said ... and maybe they don't.

I think the odds are in most instances she will have picked the outfits, and would be too horrified that someone would ask such a question to give an honest answer; and gave in. Ten years from now the bride will be showing pictures to someone and the groom will have to hear about "your friend that couldn't just wear the same shoes as everyone else." Even if the PAs are more correct, that's not how women feel. <- notice I did not say "think."

Regardless of whether this bride and groom know it or not; it's rude and self-absorbed to dress uniquely as part of a wedding party.

Usually bridesmaids buy their dresses and matching heels. It's only the men that are "out of it" enough to have these types of issues. Thus reinforcing that the whole occasion matters MOST to the Bride, her family, and her girlfriends.

Now, if the OP suggested that the entire party wear PAs; that might be a good conversation about which is more correct - the PAs or the square toed monstrosity.

As for the double standards of marriage ceremonies; you might as well ask about the groom's virginity ... It's always been a double standard and it probably will always be one.

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Taliesin

· #64 · Jan 31, 2009

Blueboy1938 said:
I'm not sure why you're missing the point, here: The OP is not a wedding guest, he is, as has been pointed out before, a member of the wedding party. That means he will be in a lot of the pictures that the bride will see for as long as she lives!

This is not about what "a bunch of Internet clothing forum participants" want, it is about what she wants at what is still regarded as the "most important day of her life". Contrary to you, the OP has come to realize that and is doing the right thing by clearing his footwear choice with the bride and groom and not "a bunch of Internet clothing forum participants" that, of course, includes you. He got good advice, and he's following it.

LOL! I suggest you check out "The Thread" to see what I'm getting at. Has nothing to do with any of the worthy points you make.

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tabasco

· #65 · Jan 31, 2009

ksinc said:
Regardless of whether this bride and groom know it or not; it's rude and self-absorbed to dress uniquely as part of a wedding party.

Usually bridesmaids buy their dresses and matching heels. It's only the men that are "out of it" enough to have these types of issues. Thus reinforcing that the whole occasion matters MOST to the Bride, her family, and her girlfriends.

While I'm not a wedding fashion historian, it occurs to me the above quote summarizes the current paradigm: "It's all about the bride".
The wedding "industry": catering, wedding dress, honeymoon destination, floral arrangements, and wedding attire, etc. shapes our thinking about "how to do it". We get married once (we hope), while "THEY" are in the business of doing it again and again and again. Where would the rental industry be if not for cookie-cutter ensembles? ...they'd have to wait for high school proms and prey on even-more-susceptible-boys/men.

WE don't know how to do this, and so WE ask for help. THEY do, and THEY would like to make it easy for US and THEM. Hence: the uniform.

And the above post about it being a wedding of BRIDE and GROOM ? yeah, it takes two equal partners.

a corollary:

When the British textile industry was able to successfully dye clothing in bright colors (prior to that, dull, earth-tone woolens were the norm), EVERYBODY liked color and gaiety and variety. Too bad we don't have wedding photos from the mid 1800's, they would like like an advert for Canon.

My own wedding party attire ranged from leather bell bottoms and sandals(how old am I?), to the-uniform-with-really-uncomfortable-shoes (brother)

-still married the first time

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cynical kane

· #66 · Jan 31, 2009

I don't understand this. If you're going to insist on wearing your own shoes, at least wear the correct ones. Park Avenues might "do in a pinch" or something but they are not the correct shoes.

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Cruiser

· #67 · Jan 31, 2009

tabasco said:
While I'm not a wedding fashion historian, it occurs to me the above quote summarizes the current paradigm: "It's all about the bride".
The wedding "industry": catering, wedding dress, honeymoon destination, floral arrangements, and wedding attire, etc. shapes our thinking

I think it's just the opposite. Women shape the industry rather than the other way around.

Most men, the members of this forum excepted of course, don't give a hoot in hades about the wedding ceremony, who's going to wear what, etc. Most just want to get it over with. I suspect the average guy would just as soon go down to the Justice of the Peace or the Minister's office in whatever he happens to be wearing and and just, to quote Larry the Cable Guy, "git r done".

Women on the other hand tend to obsess over every tiny detail of a wedding. Most live for that day. Accordingly, the wedding "industry" caters to women. Almost every aspect of that business is directed at women, even down to the clothes that the men wear. In short, the women drive that industry and make most of the decisions.

For example, when I got married I just wanted to know when, where, and what do you want me to wear? I think that the only thing I objected to was the flower on my lapel. I said "I'm not wearing a corsage, and that's final." So as I stood there in front of the minister with the flower on my lapel------ :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser

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LeicaLad

· #68 · Jan 31, 2009

The PAs will be fine.

(I have no reason to add anything, but realize I have to post even useless comments to get myself over 100 posts.

)

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Taliesin

· #69 · Jan 31, 2009

Cruiser said:
Most men, the members of this forum excepted of course, don't give a hoot in hades about the wedding ceremony, who's going to wear what, etc. Most just want to get it over with. I suspect the average guy would just as soon go down to the Justice of the Peace or the Minister's office in whatever he happens to be wearing and and just, to quote Larry the Cable Guy, "git r done".

:icon_smile_big:

Cruiser

Ah, that's better. The world is right side up again.

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