[eagle2250]

As I celebrated Independence Day, yesterday, oddly I found myself ruminating over Nike' s recent decision to pull the Betsy Ross Flagged sneakers from their stores, just because Colin Kaepernick was offended that the Betsy Ross Flag represented a time in our nations history when slavery was accepted. To my mind, that's a pretty ridiculous stretch. The Betsy Ross flag represents a lot of very positive things to a lot of good people. Hell, several of our Founding Fathers owned slaves. I believe the records show that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. owned, or lived in households maintained by and operated through the efforts of slave labor. Should we discard the Constitution? Do we disavow the contributions of any who may have at one point been touched by or benefited from the efforts of slave labor. I think not. That would be woefully shortsighted and decicedly stupid. Don't get me wrong...I am a fire breathing opponent of even the concept of slavery and find it to be one of the most unfortunate and hateful threads that were woven into the fabric of the United States of America. However I realize the extended threat(s) of trying to pull such hateful thread(s) from our cloakes of patriotism to be a fruitless undertaking and one that could lead to the unaveling of the very fabric of our society! Jeez Louise Nike, have you totally lost your good sense?

 

[Peak and Pine]

... just because Colin Kaepernick was offended that the Betsy Ross Flag represented a time in our nations history when slavery was accepted. To my mind, that's a pretty ridiculous stretch.

Not such a stretch when you realize that was not the reason he was objecting to it, else he would ask the mint to stop printing dollar bills because they have Washington's face on them.

He objected to the Nike shoe because along with the swastika and the confederate flag the 13 star Ross flag is also used as a white supremacy symbol, for that wonderful time 250 years ago when we all were white.

And while I, and you apparently, did not know the Ross flag was used that way, supremacists and black peope did and that's enough for me (he said, as he proudly laced up his Converse Chuck Taylors, now owned by Nike).

 

[smmrfld]

Not such a stretch when you realize that was not the reason he was objecting to it, else he would ask the mint to stop printing dollar bills because they have Washington's face on them.

He objected to the Nike shoe because along with the swastika and the confederate flag the 13 star Ross flag is also used as a white supremacy symbol, for that wonderful time 250 years ago when we all were white.

And while I, and you apparently, did not know the Ross flag was used that way, supremacists and black peope did and that's enough for me (he said, as he proudly laced up his Converse Chuck Taylors, now owned by Nike).

Agree completely. Good on Kaep and good on Nike for pulling it.

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Many years ago I was brought into a Southwest Plan federal savings bank as the general counsel. Prior to my arrival, the CEO and prior general counsel had adopted a litigation strategy of engaging all of the decent law firms so that they were conflicted out from representing the people we were suing to collect on defaulted loans. When I got there we had almost a hundred firms. I wonder if certain groups are employing a similar strategy by adopting multiple symbols.

 

[eagle2250]

Not such a stretch when you realize that was not the reason he was objecting to it, else he would ask the mint to stop printing dollar bills because they have Washington's face on them.

He objected to the Nike shoe because along with the swastika and the confederate flag the 13 star Ross flag is also used as a white supremacy symbol, for that wonderful time 250 years ago when we all were white.

And while I, and you apparently, did not know the Ross flag was used that way, supremacists and black peope did and that's enough for me (he said, as he proudly laced up his Converse Chuck Taylors, now owned by Nike).

Agree completely. Good on Kaep and good on Nike for pulling it.

Not implying that you gentlemen are not entitled to your opinions, but if you look at a few of the "white supremissist's" websites you will find that the most frequently displayed American flag on many is the present day version, not the Betsy Ross version. Applying you're logic, I suppose we should pull today's versions of Old Glory from their staffs and just go on without a national flag. When do you suggest that we stop this nonsense? :icon_scratch:

 

[Mike Petrik]

Not implying that you gentlemen are not entitled to your opinions, but if you look at a few of the "white supremissist's" websites you will find that the most frequently displayed American flag on many is the present day version, not the Betsy Ross version. Applying you're logic, I suppose we should pull today's versions of Old Glory from their staffs and just go on without a national flag. When would either of you suggest that we stop this nonsense? :icon_scratch:

Agreed.
And allowing a group of odious bigots to appropriate something that belongs to all of us is a noxious and cowardly concession.

 

[Mike Petrik]

Not such a stretch when you realize that was not the reason he was objecting to it, else he would ask the mint to stop printing dollar bills because they have Washington's face on them.

He objected to the Nike shoe because along with the swastika and the confederate flag the 13 star Ross flag is also used as a white supremacy symbol, for that wonderful time 250 years ago when we all were white.

And while I, and you apparently, did not know the Ross flag was used that way, supremacists and black peope did and that's enough for me (he said, as he proudly laced up his Converse Chuck Taylors, now owned by Nike).

Agree completely. Good on Kaep and good on Nike for pulling it.

Just to be clear, by its own admission Nike simply made a business decision to please its target market. The decision was grounded in principal, not principle.

 

[Peak and Pine]

Agreed.
And allowing a group of odious bigots to appropriate something that belongs to all of us is a noxious and cowardly concession.

Have never considered the Ross flag as what you say, something that belongs to all of us. But okay. Thought it was something I learned about in the fifth grade, a piece of far away history that held little interest for me then, less now.

But now comes along the All Whities who want to slap it on their pick-up bumpers. Go ahead take it you white sheet suited lunk heads. A piece of folk art easily relinquished.

To Eagle's point, he's visited supremacy sites and seen the current Old Glory so he's one up on me. Won't go to those sites, can see it live 22 feet high at my place. Maybe yours too. The Flag is too much ground into the hearts and minds and lawns of pretty much all of us for it to be snatched away by any one asshole group.

 

[Peak and Pine]

Just to be clear, by its own admission Nike simply made a business decision to please its target market. The decision was grounded in principal, not principle.

But you don't find anything wrong in that, do you? I don't. Besides, it's supposition on your part, right? I find nothing wrong with that either.

 

[Mike Petrik]

Yes, I do find something wrong with that -- as explained in my previous post. Of course it is their right, just as it is mine to criticize it.
And no -- not supposition. Based on a rather lengthy NPR report heard Wednesday.

 

[Shaver]

Heh.

Is it time for competence downshift?

 

[Shaver]

Many years ago I was brought into a Southwest Plan federal savings bank as the general counsel. Prior to my arrival, the CEO and prior general counsel had adopted a litigation strategy of engaging all of the decent law firms so that they were conflicted out from representing the people we were suing to collect on defaulted loans. When I got there we had almost a hundred firms. I wonder if certain groups are employing a similar strategy by adopting multiple symbols.

Not just symbols.

Perhaps the numbers 1, 4 and 8 should no longer be permissible?

 

[Peak and Pine]

Just to be clear, by its own admission Nike simply made a business decision to please its target market. The decision was grounded in principal, not principle.

You're not responding to what I'm asking. Will try this one more time then I'm out.

You have said Nike made a business decision to please its target market, and I asked you, what's wrong with that, and you referred me to a previous post which you think explained why there's something wrong with that. It doesn't.

Nike is not taking anything away from you. It is not buying up whatever Ross flags remain and burning them. It is not refusing to make the one shoe you've longed for all your life. Nike thought they'd try a certain shoe, found out it could be taken more than one way, the other which was the centerpiece of a tacked up flag on the wall of the beer hall where the Supremies gather and said, oops, and backed off. I applaud them for this.

 

[Peak and Pine]

I wonder if certain groups are employing a similar strategy by adopting multiple symbols.

No fear. They're not grabbing symbols willy nilly. They must mean something to them, from a time before their time, when they thought all was white and wonderful, or when their numbers had swelled so that they were more than a looney fringe, a looney power. Nazi Germany, the Klan of the South, at this country's inception before any immigration (the Ross flag.)

By the way, did your firm actually operate the way your anecdote stated? Man. But never mind.

 

[Mike Petrik]

Sorry I was not clearer, Peak. Nike's decision to remove the shoes in question implicitly concedes to the successful appropriation of the so-called Betsy Ross flag by certain poisonous racist fringe groups. IMO it is wrong to make such a concession, even for profit, precisely because it serves to empower these groups.

 

[Mike Petrik]

Peak -- FWIW it is not at all unheard of for a large company to send legal work to various law firms they would rather not have to face in litigation. It is also not unheard of for law firms to decline such engagements, especially if modest in scope, in order to be free to accept more lucrative engagements adverse to such a company. In my 35 year career in so-called Big Law, I've witnessed both phenomena.

 

[Andy]

When Nike first marketed the Kaepernick sneaker I got an e-mail joke something like:

I got these Nike sneakers, but had to return them. They won't let me stand up for the US National Anthem.

 

[eagle2250]

No fear. They're not grabbing symbols willy nilly. They must mean something to them, from a time before their time, when they thought all was white and wonderful, or when their numbers had swelled so that they were more than a looney fringe, a looney power. Nazi Germany, the Klan of the South, at this country's inception before any immigration (the Ross flag.)

By the way, did your firm actually operate the way your anecdote stated? Man. But never mind.

Those repulsive hate groups are also displaying the 'Don't Tread on Me' flags, displaying a coiled snake spraled across the stars and bars. Are we going to allow hate groups to define what constitute hot buttons that trigger reactions from the various minority groups. If we get rid of everything the hate groups might embrace, I fear we may not have much left and besides, I really don't like the idea of the hate mongers calling the tunes at my dance!

 

[Peak and Pine]

Intriguing take. Let me ponder that. Later, it

When Nike first marketed the Kaepernick sneaker I got an e-mail joke something like:

I got these Nike sneakers, but had to return them. They won't let me stand up for the US National Anthem.

Cute. Mildly clever. Inoffensive. I chuckled (because he owns this place.)

 

[Peak and Pine]

Sorry I was not clearer, Peak. Nike's decision to remove the shoes in question implicitly concedes to the successful appropriation of the so-called Betsy Ross flag by certain poisonous racist fringe groups. IMO it is wrong to make such a concession, even for profit, precisely because it serves to empower these groups.

I see your point now and concede to it. But there are a couple of dogs running on the same track here. So I also bow to my own points, prickish tho that may read.