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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
The aim of acting is to play, and to play at or as someone you are not. I get that part. But let's not push it. I am not keen on seeing American actors portray Shakespeare, let alone black ones. Washington is a fine actor whom I've admired in many roles. If he wants to play doomed nobility, he can try his hand at O'Neil's Emperor Jones.

You have broadened a very specific remark into to a wide range of even more specific examples, many of which I'm familiar and would agree with you. But I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about Denzel Washington playing Macbeth. Blah to that, go home, Denzel.

This is the May purchases thread and we are both to blame for derailing it. You tossed out bait you didn't know was bait, forgiven, and I took it. Forgive me.
 

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The aim of acting is to play, and to play at or as someone you are not. I get that part. But let's not push it. I am not keen on seeing American actors portray Shakespeare, let alone black ones. Washington is a fine actor whom I've admired in many roles. If he wants to play doomed nobility, he can try his hand at O'Neil's Emperor Jones.

You have broadened a very specific remark into to a wide range of even more specific examples, many of which I'm familiar and would agree with you. But I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about Denzel Washington playing Macbeth. Blah to that, go home, Denzel.

This is the May purchases thread and we are both to blame for derailing it. You tossed out bait you didn't know was bait, forgiven, and I took it. Forgive me.
All right, you're forgiven. Let's bury the hatchet, agree to disagree on this. No issues, we're cool! And other familiar expressions...LOL.
 

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The aim of acting is to play, and to play at or as someone you are not. I get that part. But let's not push it. I am not keen on seeing American actors portray Shakespeare, let alone black ones. Washington is a fine actor whom I've admired in many roles. If he wants to play doomed nobility, he can try his hand at O'Neil's Emperor Jones.

You have broadened a very specific remark into to a wide range of even more specific examples, many of which I'm familiar and would agree with you. But I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about Denzel Washington playing Macbeth. Blah to that, go home, Denzel.

This is the May purchases thread and we are both to blame for derailing it. You tossed out bait you didn't know was bait, forgiven, and I took it. Forgive me.
Way off the subject here, but actors pretend to be people they are not. Julia Roberts played a hooker once. Charlize Theron played a killer. Tom Hanks played a gay man with AIDS. It wasn't too long ago that men played female characters in plays.
Having white actors historically portraying characters of other ethnicities has often been a problem because they played them as caricatures, and often prevented well-qualified actors from the same ethnicity of the character from getting roles. But there aren't too many actors that are better than Denzel so looking for a better actor to play MacBeth -- whom I'm sure has been played thousands of times by men of different ethnicities and ages -- would have been futile. Would you rather a lesser actor get the role merely because he was white?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Way off the subject here...
You got that right.
Would you rather a lesser actor get the role merely because he was white?
No, why would you even suggest that? A false dichotomy. Meryl Streep I believe is the finest actress that ever lived. I don't want her playing Macbeth either. There are a s*** load of white, male actors who could do Macbeth beautifully. My preference would be someone with roots in the UK. Such as a certain actor, whom I don't particularly like, but only because he's strongly associated with a character whom I really don't like, and besides he's dead, but a fine actor AND Scotish, Sean Connery.

Macbeth, the play, carries heavy meaning for me. Many passages have I memorized, shouting them as loud as I could alone in the woods, not because I am a wannabe actor, but I believe in working on projection and elocution throughout life. I have a strong voice and wish to keep it as I age. I am 77. I first read Macbeth at 27. Fifty years it's been with me. My name here at AAAC is a phrase uttered by the Third Witch. Peak, Shakespeare uses for peak'ED, as in pallor, Pine as in melancholy, to pine. I associate that phrase with personality, mine, off net.

Denzel, you're a fine man whom I don't even think of as a 'Black' actor. Until now. Go home, Denz, find something else. Now everybody, leave me alone about this.
 

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You got that right.
No, why would you even suggest that? A false dichotomy. Meryl Streep I believe is the finest actress that ever lived. I don't want her playing Macbeth either. There are a s*** load of white, male actors who could do Macbeth beautifully. My preference would be someone with roots in the UK. Such as a certain actor, whom I don't particularly like, but only because he's strongly associated with a character whom I really don't like, and besides he's dead, but a fine actor AND Scotish, Sean Connery.

Macbeth, the play, carries heavy meaning for me. Many passages have I memorized, shouting them as loud as I could alone in the woods, not because I am a wannabe actor, but I believe in working on projection and elocution throughout life. I have a strong voice and wish to keep it as I age. I am 77. I first read Macbeth at 27. Fifty years it's been with me. My name here at AAAC is a phrase uttered by the Third Witch. Peak, Shakespeare uses for peak'ED, as in pallor, Pine as in melancholy, to pine. I associate that phrase with personality, mine, off net.

Denzel, you're a fine man whom I don't even think of as a 'Black' actor. Until now. Go home, Denz, find something else. Now everybody, leave me alone about this.
It's not a false dichotomy. Yes, there are lots of male actors who can do MacBeth just fine. Would they do it better than Denzel, who's one of the greatest actors of our time? Probably not. Maybe Merryl Streep would make a fine MacBeth; I'd have to see it to know for sure.
I understand your viewpoints, appreciate your knowledge -- especially on men's style -- but you can't make statements such as these (basically saying that you can't look beyond the man's skin color in his portrayal of MacBeth) and not expect some disagreements to be expressed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
...you can't make statements such as these (basically saying that you can't look beyond the man's skin color in his portrayal of MacBeth) and not expect some disagreements to be expressed.
I think that you think I may be attempting to persuade others that my view on this is the correct one. Not at all. It's just my view and has no effect on anything or anybody outside of my own head.

It may surprise you, given all that I said in the post to which you are responding, that I have never seen a production of Macbeth. I have only read it, countless times. And I have recordings of both Charles Laughton and Richard Burton doing passages from it. I have recordings of myself doing passages from it. But visually the character exists only as I have imagined him. And that imagining does not include a Black guy.

My view may seem to you unsophisticated, provincial, not very woke, maybe even racist. Think what you may, but I am the one most familiar with my own thinking and while I am open to it being tweaked by others, else how could I have lived this long, on this very narrow topic I've voluntarily set myself in cement.

Please don't take this as ornery or angry. I value your contributions to the site. You're in San Jose, in the early 70s I worked there for a couple of days on a crew sodding lawns, looking for wending money, that would be gasoline, so I could wend my way back to Maine.
 

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I think that you think I may be attempting to persuade others that my view on this is the correct one. Not at all. It's just my view and has no effect on anything or anybody outside of my own head.

It may surprise you, given all that I said in the post to which you are responding, that I have never seen a production of Macbeth. I have only read it, countless times. And I have recordings of both Charles Laughton and Richard Burton doing passages from it. I have recordings of myself doing passages from it. But visually the character exists only as I have imagined him. And that imagining does not include a Black guy.

My view may seem to you unsophisticated, provincial, not very woke, maybe even racist. Think what you may, but I am the one most familiar with my own thinking and while I am open to it being tweaked by others, else how could I have lived this long, on this very narrow topic I've voluntarily set myself in cement.

Please don't take this as ornery or angry. I value your contributions to the site. You're in San Jose, in the early 70s I worked there for a couple of days on a crew sodding lawns, looking for wending money, that would be gasoline, so I could wend my way back to Maine.
I understand your perspective. All I'm trying to say is: try to enjoy diversity and forgo your expectations, in actors and in other things. While I'm not as experienced in life as you are, I've found doing that allows me to more broadly enjoy life. Denzel is terrific actor and I can imagine he would give a disappointing performance in the portrayal of any character. Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Anxious to try these.
Sleeve Collar Font Bag Computer data storage


Arrived today. I often buy Kirkland dress shirts, first time for a Kirkland sport shirt. Interesting mix in the fabric, 68% cotton, 20% something called CoolMax, 10% nylon, 2% old pizza cartons. Found new eBay, with shipping, $11.85 each. And as Kirkland always does, well packaged and presented.

Note the small pouch of buttons. They came today also. Fifty, jacket sized (30L), direct from China, took 6 weeks, made of wood (!), fab color and finish. Cost, with shipping, $2.89

Eye Finger Wood Nail Thumb


Light Dress shirt Tartan Black Textile

Sleeve Textile Dress shirt Jersey Bag
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
They look lovely, Peaks. Now you've got to get to work replacing all those collar buttons...Or are these for casual wear only?
These will probably not be worn with a tie so, no, I won't be putting the Bruiser on. The shirts were purchased with a specific pairing in mind, to go with what you see below, a jacket with a remaking in the works. The button hole is new and the button is one of the wooden ones I got from China yesterday, pictured in the pouch in the post above.

Brown Textile Sleeve Wood Grey


Maybe I'll give a preview here of what I'm doing. The jacket is a standard black and gray herringbone tweed, nice but no personality. And it's woefully too large. The first step before making it fit is to strip the front of its current sloppy demeanor. Below is a mirror shot for comparison, made quickly for my own use, so all extrania including the hair should be excused.

Face Jeans Outerwear Shirt Dress shirt

On the right, the original. The left, lapels reset and two buttons and holes added. The jacket is way too long, as are the sleeves, turned back in photo and the whole thing is lumpy and ill fitting. Now. But just you wait. The only use for that photo packet is for me to see how the new buttons align and how the reset label appears. And I'm mostly pleased.
 

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These will probably not be worn with a tie so, no, I won't be putting the Bruiser on. The shirts were purchased with a specific pairing in mind, to go with what you see below, a jacket with a remaking in the works. The button hole is new and the button is one of the wooden ones I got from China yesterday, pictured in the pouch in the post above.

View attachment 87183

Maybe I'll give a preview here of what I'm doing. The jacket is a standard black and gray herringbone tweed, nice but no personality. And it's woefully too large. The first step before making it fit is to strip the front of its current sloppy demeanor. Below is a mirror shot for comparison, made quickly for my own use, so all extrania including the hair should be excused.

View attachment 87184
On the right, the original. The left, lapels reset and two buttons and holes added. The jacket is way too long, as are the sleeves, turned back in photo and the whole thing is lumpy and ill fitting. Now. But just you wait. The only use for that photo packet is for me to see how the new buttons align and how the reset label appears. And I'm mostly pleased.
I really like how the top part of the jacket now looks with the new buttons, in the left image. I like jackets with three-button fronts (when bought off the peg) and that is in part because I don't like plunging (and often gaping) lapels that leave most of the shirt front exposed. I hope you'll post final pictures once all the work is finished.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
I really like how the top part of the jacket now looks with the new buttons, in the left image. I like jackets with three-button fronts (when bought off the peg) and that is in part because I don't like plunging (and often gaping) lapels that leave most of the shirt front exposed. I hope you'll post final pictures once all the work is finished.
Thank ye.
There's quite a bit of work to do on this particular piece. And like the Carpenters, I've only just begun.

I may move this over onto a thread on its own. And fill it with white lace and promises. Please, slap me. And post a few pics as I go. The shoulder width is good as is, 19", but not the shape. Jacket and sleeves too long and I think a fat guy lived in this before me. Even when made to fit well, it's just a black and gray herring bone jacket with little personality. So I have plans to juice it, starting with the four button front and whispering lapels. A kiss for luck and I'm on my way.
 

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Thank ye.
There's quite a bit of work to do on this particular piece. And like the Carpenters, I've only just begun.

I may move this over onto a thread on its own. And fill it with white lace and promises. Please, slap me. And post a few pics as I go. The shoulder width is good as is, 19", but not the shape. Jacket and sleeves too long and I think a fat guy lived in this before me. Even when made to fit well, it's just a black and gray herring bone jacket with little personality. So I have plans to juice it, starting with the four button front and whispering lapels. A kiss for luck and I'm on my way.
A slap, a kiss. Ah, the poetry of clothes, the romance of tailoring...
 

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Hmm I got an alert from this thread, I think I saw the pre-edit post.

Good luck on the jacket surgery, you cheeky bastard.

I've seen the light on extended shoulders, your jacket seems to have them and I dig how it looks. I used to think of them as "unnatural and grotesque", but that doesn't actually matter, only what silhouette someone is trying to achieve.

I dropped off my cloth at my tailor and emphasized extended shoulders and a full chest. I'm not sure how well the lightweight cloth will respond to more structure, but we'll see.

Albert Camus did this look well. (Lifted from SF thread).


 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Hmm I got an alert from this thread, I think I saw the pre-edit post. Good luck on the jacket surgery, you cheeky bastard.
I've gotta be faster with my finngers. Yes, I did edit the post and I hang my head in shame for my cowardly move. I should have let it alone.
I referred to Delish as like the son I never had, and never really wanted. Hey, it broke me up.
The shoulder, It's not that extended. Until age 70 I liked an 18 inch shoulder. Then one day I noticed age had chipmunked my face, a pair of jowls holding a perpetual sack of chopped nuts magically appeared. Since I've always felt a jacket's shoulder should be in balance with the face, even more than with the anatomical shoulder, I decided from then on to seek out jackets with a 19 inch shoulder. Or larger, and narrow back to 19. The jacket being worked on is 19, but the shape is not to my liking. And I agree with you, it looks extended. But when all is finished and the jacket is tugged into its proper position via needle and thread and I am standing in my naturally patrician pose, I think the jacket will not look particularly extended. Keep me informed about your jacket or coat or whatever it is you're having made.
 

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I've gotta be faster with my finngers. Yes, I did edit the post and I hang my head in shame for my cowardly move. I should have let it alone.
I referred to Delish as like the son I never had, and never really wanted. Hey, it broke me up.
The shoulder, It's not that extended. Until age 70 I liked an 18 inch shoulder. Then one day I noticed age had chipmunked my face, a pair of jowls holding a perpetual sack of chopped nuts magically appeared. Since I've always felt a jacket's shoulder should be in balance with the face, even more than with the anatomical shoulder, I decided from then on to seek out jackets with a 19 inch shoulder. Or larger, and narrow back to 19. The jacket being worked on is 19, but the shape is not to my liking. And I agree with you, it looks extended. But when all is finished and the jacket is tugged into its proper position via needle and thread and I am standing in my naturally patrician pose, I think the jacket will not look particularly extended. Keep me informed about your jacket or coat or whatever it is you're having made.
No worries man, I thought the original comment was hilarious and endearing.

I've read that Cary Grant also preferred an extended shoulder because his head was massive or something. I'll keep that in mind for when I also start getting droopy.

Will do with updating on my suit, whenever that is, tailor seemed swamped due to wedding season.

I'll be following your project as well.
 
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