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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For my own purposes, I ask for Medwards permission to detour this thread for my own personal desires

For my own Lazyman shoe (full brogue side gusset with imitation lacing)...I'm wondering if a wholecut with imitation brogueing might be appropriate

What are the strengths and weaknesses, construction and style wise to using a wholecut?
 

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I believe you will get more responses and a fuller discussion if this question begins a new, independent thread...so I have taken the liberty of beginning such a separate conversation.
 

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if i were gonna choose this design i would go with G&G's mitchell as the base idea and then ask TG to make as a faux lace side gusset i would not do it in black but a dark oak antiqued and burnished very very dark or expresso.

this way it keeps it both suitable for smart and casual uses
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't desire a traditional full brogue wing tip mixed in with a side gussetting and imitation lacing

I realized I love long wing galosh/balmorals but wish to make mine with imitation brogueing, possibly a shorter wing tip, and of course the side gussetting with imitation lacing

With the imitation brogueing, there is not longer an issue as to whether it can be a wholecut

But what are the benefits and downsides to a wholecut

Fritzl posted a picture on a Style Forum thread of mine or Jamaicans about a side gussetted wholecut from an Austria or Hungarian shoe maker

I'd love Luk-cha's recent G&G longwings but with the side gussetting and imitation lacing (couple with imitation brogueing instead)...this would be ideal

Cleverly...George Glasgow had issues with it but noted it could be done...even though he didn't explain how...this was a concern per why I opted to not work with them...higher price didn't help either
 

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Side gusseted whole cuts are not uncommon though from personal experience such a shoe leaves little room for the last maker to improve you last in future shoes he has to get it right first time. This process will very likely considerably increase the time your shoes take to be completed to your and his satisfaction. I understand shoe makers generally prefer to make a clients first shoe a laced type for this reason.

The benefits of whole cut is a sleeker design more tightly conforming to the last all over. The downside from a style point of view is that most people prefer brogues with the relief that layers give.
 

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Longwong clarification?

Michael:

I am not really clear what you mean by "longwing" in this particular instance. Generally, a longwing refers to the winged toe cap's broguing extending the length of the shoe. This is not the same as a Balmoral (galosh) oxford's seam running horizontally (though they can certainly look similar and I guess once could construct a galosh oxford where the lines were one in the same). The wing toe cap on Centipede's G&G's Balmoral (galosh) oxfords that you favor is what my makers' term "midlength" -- not a true longwing in the traditional sense. A classic longwing plus a galosh style construction would result in two horizontal lines running the length of the shoe, which I for one would find a bit too crowded and busy. Of course, different individuals -- even shoemakers -- use these terms differently. Could you be more precise about what you mean by longwing in this instance and how you would like your ultimate shoe to appear? A picture perhaps?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I learn something everyday :teacha:

I really like a balmoral/galosh with brogueing along the galosh line. And now that it can be done, I like imitation brogueing

Holy cow, I've now thought of another imitation to throw into my Lazyman shoe design (RJMan would be so proud): An imitation galosh/balmoral based on an imitation brogued line stitched across :crazy: :aportnoy: :eek:

I like wingtip designs, but am looking for something in between the short wingtip cap on Edward Greens Southwold and the "middle length" cap presented on Centipede's galosh

Any samples of something in between both of the above would be welcome

Do you or anyone else have a sample picture of a Longwing to post?

So far the Lazyman has 3 types of imitations thrown into it
1. Imitation lacing (a must)
2. Imitation brogueing throughout
3. Imitation galosh/balmoral line (since it might be a wholecut) with imitation brogueing along the line

Any other imitation work I can throw in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Its no game Medwards, the imitation lacing is my cup of tea since it gives me the comfort of a side-gusset design while adding a bit of formality

As to imitation brogueing...the forums educated me that this exists. I saw a Lazyman shoe design by Koji with imitation brogueing and liked it...obviously you do too since your Cleverley black calf adedlaide has imitation brogueing.

As to the imitation galosh line with brogueing...I'm only gauging this style attribute to see if it will work...especially because I like a balmoral design with brogueing along the galosh line. I just thought perhaps a wholecut would be easier for the shoe maker in order to make it all work out...obviously they will advise how best to put it all together

As to imitation leather, NO THANKS. I'm not a vegetarian or strict vegan thus I don't have moral issues of wearing leather. Besides, the quality of the black leather calf that George Glasgow had on hand, from Germany, was excellent. I've seen this imitation leather on Birkenstock sandals and didn't like it

Thanks for the picture posts on Longwings. I don't like them, but now know how to identify them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ay 329

I've just noticed, it's your first anniversary on this forum.
(Well, it was until a few minutes ago).

Many happy returns.
:aportnoy::aportnoy::aportnoy::cry:

Bengal-stripe thanks for thinking of me over the past year with your comments and especially on the flamboyant Baron post

I wonder what happened to all of his shoes besides the ones he gave to Cleverley?
 

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How about imitation leather?

Seriously, Michael, what are you trying to achieve? Design elements should be chosen to support a particular construction, look or fit. With all due respect, this is beginning to feel something like a game.
Good one

+1, but his tenacity is respectable.

Michael, as I already said: Jump into the water, noooooooooooooow ;)

PS: Btw, the maker of the wholecut is Maftei, Vienna.
 

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Medwards- Great photos and thanks for posting them. I will consider these on Cleverley's next trip. Do you have any other photos you could post? Nice style!

Ay329- It sounds to me like you don't know what you want! To try and change styles, when a company like Cleverley has set the standards with shoes for many years seems strange. Have you had bespoke shoes from anyone? Or is this a one time purchase, which is why you seem to be questioning everything? Personally, on the price I think you are wrong. Is G&G different from Cleverley in price? If they are, which I'm not sure if true (it is by a very small amount), this may be down to the fact G&G don't have a retail store and Cleverley is located on London's Old Bond Street. When you compare Cleverley's pricing with John Lobb's pricing (https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/main/pricelist.htm), you will see that Lobb bespoke croc is $12,000, whereas Cleverley is $6,000 less the tax, which is a reasonable price considering most would say Lobb and Cleverley are simply the best. Cleverley seems to have been the choice of Winston Churchill, Gary Cooper, Humphrey Bogart, Gary Grant, David Beckham, George Clooney, Daniel Day Lewis, all of which seem to set fashion trends and appear to clearly know quality. Therefore, my advise to you would be start with other shoemakers, then work your way up to the best, like Cleverley & Lobb, which I am sure you will never leave once you start with them.

Good luck in your bespoke hunt!

Let us know how your G&G visit goes......
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I didn't do bespoke due to health reasons and everyone in my household got hit with a vicious stomach virus. Thus I had canceled my Halloween Party and my meeting with Tony Gaziano...this totally sucked

But before I go for the whole nine yards so to speak in bespoke, I have a little MTO surprise for all of you come by Thanksgiving and that's all I'm going to say :icon_smile_big:

In the meanwhile the Great Pumpkin passed by today sending children and true believers alike gifts in appreciation to keeping his memory alive

So eat this: G&G Wigmore TG73 "Hard" square last, Vintage Rioja with heavy burnishing/antiqueing & steel eyelets plus speed hooks
 
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