[Fading Fast]

Richard Press pens regular pieces for the J.Press website. Most are good, but today's struck me as very Trad interesting:



When I started on Wall Street in the '80s, it was verboten to wear a black suit. Knowing nothing about Ivy / Trad attire back then, when I asked why it wasn't allowed, I received an answer - delivered in rapid staccato - something like "because it isn't." Which - in that less touchy feely time - was a standard answer to many questions.

 

[TimF]

Thank you! I've always held that navy was smarter and more interesting than black, but did not know this tradition's precise lineage. In fact even tuxedos can be made in midnight navy, a smarter choice than boring old black. So I think black is safely relegated to things like shoes and belts.

 

[Corcovado]

A good read.

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Thank you! I've always held that navy was smarter and more interesting than black, but did not know this tradition's precise lineage. In fact even tuxedos can be made in midnight navy, a smarter choice than boring old black. So I think black is safely relegated to things like shoes and belts.

And from a certain TNSIL perspective, certainly not all Trad perspectives, there is no safety in black shoes and belts, only dinner clothes and the black tassel loafers worn only to funerals.

 

[peterc]

I was just in NYC and visited the JPress store for the first time. Nice place. Bought a nice chestnut colored belt. Tried on a blazer as well. Nice to be able to fit into a 44R (again) because the item is cut properly. They have Trickers and Rancourt shoes too.

 

[TimF]

And from a certain TNSIL perspective, certainly not all Trad perspectives, there is no safety in black shoes and belts, only dinner clothes and the black tassel loafers worn only to funerals.

Highly contextual. On campus, say in NH or ME, no black. With a job on Wall St or Madison Ave, black for business formal occasions.

I think it's very much un-"trad" to have shoes clashing with the pants. Whether it's khaki pants with black shoes, or navy pants with orange tan shoes: shudder. The latter BTW is au courant throughout metropolises.

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Absolutely highly contextual.

 

[Brooksfan]

Richard Press pens regular pieces for the J.Press website. Most are good, but today's struck me as very Trad interesting:
I.

I remember reading years ago (40-50 yrs) that Brooks Brothers didn't offer black suits OTR and preferred to make them only for clergy. If I recall the article Brooks' aversion to black garments was because Abraham Lincoln was wearing a black Brooks coat when he was assassinated. I'll try to find the article

 

[eagle2250]

Richard Press pens regular pieces for the J.Press website. Most are good, but today's struck me as very Trad interesting:

When I started on Wall Street in the '80s, it was verboten to wear a black suit. Knowing nothing about Ivy / Trad attire back then, when I asked why it wasn't allowed, I received an answer - delivered in rapid staccato - something like "because it isn't." Which - in that less touchy feely time - was a standard answer to many questions.

Deja vue'??? :icon_scratch: I think I just read the referenced article in an email, earlier this AM. It would be hard, and also unwise to disagree with a word Richard Press pens.

 

[Fading Fast]

Deja vue'??? :icon_scratch: I think I just read the referenced article in an email, earlier this AM. It would be hard, and also unwise to disagree with a word Richard Press pens.

That's where I found it - in Press' daily email.

Can't ask for much more of a connection to the Ivy era than Richard Press.

 

[Charles Dana]

That's where I found it - in Press' daily email.

Can't ask for much more of a connection to the Ivy era than Richard Press.

Correction: "...than Richard Press or Billax."

The seller and the buyer. Symmetry.

 

[Fading Fast]

Correction: "...than Richard Press or Billax."

The seller and the buyer. Symmetry.

I am happy to stand corrected - Billax is an incredible source of Ivy Era knowledge, an impressive dresser and a heck of a nice guy.

 

[paul winston]

With the exception of dinner suits I do not even need all the fingers on one hand to count the number of black suits we sold/made dating back to 1945.
Now we do sell quite a few black Grenadine and black knit ties - but not as many as navy.
Paul Winston
www.chippneckwear.com

 

[Califax]

Jay Walter told me that black suits/jackets are the number one selling color worldwide.

AFAIK, black is only for funerals; or, for after six.

 

[Brooksfan]

With the exception of dinner suits I do not even need all the fingers on one hand to count the number of black suits we sold/made dating back to 1945.
Now we do sell quite a few black Grenadine and black knit ties - but not as many as navy.
Paul Winston
www.chippneckwear.com

Paul Winston and Richard Press are as AUTHENTIC as it gets. In 1996 I went to a Chicago area Big & Tall (long ago closed) and wanted to replace my charcoal suit. I allowed myself to be talked into a black suit instead, and at the same time I allowed myself to substitute a medium/light blue blazer instead of the new navy blazer I sought. This "variety" ended up comprising the most expensive clothing I've owned as I gave both items away after having worn each of them once or twice and hating myself every minute I had them on
Charcoal and Navy forever!!

 

[eagle2250]

^^
It is indeed rather amazing that so many of us seem compelled to learn our most memorable sartorial lessons as a result of tragic mistakes we have made. :icon_scratch:

 

[Fading Fast]

⇧ My wardrobe is pretty trad / trad-inspired, but it is not strictly Ivy or even all trad. That said, when I stray far from trad, I tend to be disappointed. In part, that's because most of the trad items I own works together without much thought.

Sure, I have to be aware of patterns and colors (and hues) and level of dressiness (but even that isn't hard and fast), but much of it works together. Somehow, though, when I've tried to bring in a not-trad-at-all element, it just feels off to me. It might look good as a stand alone, but doesn't play well with the mainly trad items I have to wear it with.

It's been a long time since I've even tried, but over the years, I've bought and hardly worn several non-trad ties, some shoes and a few shirts that I liked in the store, but that all saw limited wear before being donated to Goodwill.

While we've seen the closing of many traditional trad stores and the adulteration of others, like Brooks, since I'm not a purist, the newer ones (that have trad or trad-inspired items) - J.Crew, Gustin, Polo, Old Navy, Bill's, etc. - have given me plenty of options to refresh and expand.

 

[TimF]

Jay Walter told me that black suits/jackets are the number one selling color worldwide.

AFAIK, black is only for funerals; or, for after six.

On a recent trip to China, I observed the trend of skinny black suits among young Chinese males. This would explain why black is number one worldwide.

 

[Vecchio Vespa]

Other than a handful of Vineyard Vines ties I like because they are so whimsical, a pair of Lucchese boots, a pair of Levi 501s, a stack of Tee shirts from various events (pretty much worn for chores), and my hot orange Nikes, my wardrobe is 100% TNSIL. I still feel emotionally scarred from a two button glen plaid suit I bought in 1976 and, even though it was a 3/2, a Polo olive colored suit I bought in 1978. A dinner suit is the only item of black apparel I’ve ever owned.

 

[Andy]

Here it was, all along, in The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes:

COLOR
Men's suits, designed for the dressiest business and social occasions have traditionally been dark in color. The acceptable colors for suits are navy, gray, tan (summer), olive and in some cases brown.

Navy and gray have evolved since they look good with the hair, eye, and skin tones of most men, and dark clothing is slimming.

Black:

For men black is considered too somber for business, and more appropriate for social events, and funerals. Recently there has been a challenge by female executives wearing black since it is such a powerful color.

Looking back in history black or dark colors have been the acceptable in men's clothes, but somber colors were not always common in men's clothing, they begin their entry into men's wear after the French Revolution in 1789 as the bright colors of the 18th century Nobility were quickly replaced with the somber colors of the common man!

Beau "Buck" Brummell advocated dark clothes for evening in the 1790's, and in 1828 Edward Bulwer-Lyton (19th century writer) laid down the challenge "people must be very distinguished to look well in back" and England's dandies took to black.

There were other factors. Black was the color of choice in England during the end of the reign of Queen Victoria (1819 - 1901). Her husband, Prince Albert was born the same year as the queen, but died of typhoid fever on December 14, 1861 at Windsor Castle. After the death of her husband Queen Victoria and most of England wore black clothes for the rest of her life (40 years!).

Also the Protestant movement favored more somber colors. The English dark clothing look was adopted in Europe after the English defeat of Napoleon, June 18, 1815. To the victors went the flattery of imitation.

Black had become practical and in vogue by the height of the Industrial Revolution (during the 1850's) as the soot, smoke and grime from the new industrial age filled the air. And dry cleaning hadn't been invented yet!

There may also be a subliminal attraction to black of sexual appeal, power, even mystery and death that kept the male in dark clothes.

During the 1940's and 50's black became acceptable for funerals and social events, especially in the evening, but not for daytime business! This might have been a reaction to all those years wearing black!

And an excerpt from Frequently Asked Questions linked from the Home Page:
...
Women have made use of the color for both "power" and a sliming effect as they have made entry into business at higher and higher levels over the past decade. This has made the color more popular in male business attire.

I would use caution, depending upon your business and the occasion. I would not wear a black suit for a job interview. ...