Men's Clothing Forums banner
1 - 20 of 78 Posts

·
Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Joined
·
37,088 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Close to 42 years of my adult life were spent wearing the uniform of one of this country's military services and/or working as a civil servant, carrying out the American peoples business, as I may have been ordered to do. I passionately love the USA, as has become apparent in a few of my earlier postings. The blood in my veins literally runs Red, White and Blue. Reflecting on our membership, I am not unique in such regard. However, in spite of all that, recent disclosures regarding our national leadership greatly disgust me and cause me to question, after all these years of service, have I been that big of a fool!

It was recently acknowledged that members of the US Congress had crafted and put in place a neat little scheme to cover up and avoid being held accountable for their boorish and criminal behavior in committing sexual assaults and violations against women, through the payment of "hush money," using taxpayer funds. Last evening, it was reported on (I think) virtually every major news feed that our President had referred to immigrants from Haiti and South African nations as people with problems coming from "shit hole" countries. I am shamed and indeed our Country's national stature, in the eyes of our sister nations of this gobe we occupy, is diminished by such words and actions and frankly I am better than that, as are so many other Americans!

I believe this is an appropriate issue for discussion, but caution that it could prove to be a slippery slope and we should not overly personalize responses to the point that the thread goes off the rails:crazy:. Talking like that, leaves me with the depressing thought... Egad, I sound like a politician! :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,999 Posts
A few things:

1) I, too, was shocked to hear about the slush fund used to pay our sexual harassment claims. All the more reason to term limit these guys and after so many years, turn them back out into the real world to sink or swim (I’m guessing they’ll sink).

2) though uncuthe and vulgar, I’m sorry but those countries are s***holes. Our immigration system needs to be completely overhauled to give preference to more skilled workers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,460 Posts
Speaking as one who currently serves his country in one of the less aesthetically pleasing countries in the world, I can certainly see why the people here want to go to my home country. Over the years, I have vouched for several of my long serving employees to be granted a Special Immigrant Visa. I consider this to be one of the most fulfilling experiences in my life of government service. It is life changing in every regard, both for me and for them.

Given that 95% of the world media comes from the USA and glorifies the American lifestyle, what third world child with flies in their eyes drawing drinking water from a cess pool wouldn't dream of being an American some day? The question isn't "why" do they want to come to America, but how can America finally come to grips with massive third world immigration in a fair, regulated and efficient manner. I am very conservative in matters of immigration, but I realize that well regulated immigration is the lifeblood of our nation. The shambolic system we have had does no service to citizens or those wishing to legally immigrate. In addition, America and Europe can't serve as a relief valve for the world's problems, when issues abroad are better addressed abroad.

The colonial period ended when the colonial powers came to the realization that it is better for a country to be poorly governed by its own people than moderately well governed by a foreign power. Similarly, it is probably better for the majority of people to stay in their home country, building their own society, than allowing a constant brain drain to the west.

Eagle2250, you are not a fool. It is just that our elected officials have let us down. Our military and our diplomatic corps are two of the most patriotic and powerful forces on the planet. Yet, we are often hamstrung by a leadership that is sadly uninformed as to the realities of life beyond our shores.

Cheers,

BSR
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,866 Posts
Close to 42 years of my adult life were spent wearing the uniform of one of this country's military services and/or working as a civil servant, carrying out the American peoples business, as I may have been ordered to do. I passionately love the USA, as has become apparent in a few of my earlier postings. The blood in my veins literally runs Red, White and Blue. Reflecting on our membership, I am not unique in such regard. However, in spite of all that, recent disclosures regarding our national leadership greatly disgust me and cause me to question, after all these years of service, have I been that big of a fool!

It was recently acknowledged that members of the US Congress had crafted and put in place a neat little scheme to cover up and avoid being held accountable for their boorish and criminal behavior in committing sexual assaults and violations against women, through the payment of "hush money," using taxpayer funds. Last evening, it was reported on (I think) virtually every major news feed that our President had referred to immigrants from Haiti and South African nations as people with problems coming from "shit hole" countries. I am shamed and indeed our Country's national stature, in the eyes of our sister nations of this gobe we occupy, is diminished by such words and actions and frankly I am better than that, as are so many other Americans!

I believe this is an appropriate issue for discussion, but caution that it could prove to be a slippery slope and we should not overly personalize responses to the point that the thread goes off the rails:crazy:. Talking like that, leaves me with the depressing thought... Egad, I sound like a politician! :(
There's much to be depressed about. Your long service to our country does you honor, and our country is the better for it.

I view current happenings from multiple perspectives; on one hand, and I'll be frank, I view our current chief executive and his cronies with both extreme distaste and dismay. But I've also always felt congress well characterized by the title of P. J. O'Rourke's book, A Parliament of Whores.

However while the flagrant, in-your-face nature is novel, which of itself should be alarming, some of it isn't really that new. Among fairly recent Presidents I can't help but remember Nixon and LBJ. Both of these gentlemen were major potty-mouths! Though not stupidly so. If you can access Nixon's ranting on his tapes, or remarks by Johnson regarding specific individuals you will find statements every bit as crass, though not at dumb.

And I'm afraid that an examination of American history does not yield a long procession of selfless public servants as much as boundless oceans of scalawags and miscreants seeking personal enrichment and aggrandizement. I am currently reading Ron Chernow's very enjoyable biography titled Grant. It is a fascinating account of the man and civil war, but it makes clear that this war was perceived by many in the Union cause as the career opportunity of a life time, and this includes the subject himself. And while he evidently did have a high sense of honor and strove to conduct himself accordingly, it did not necessarily extend to his family, and he himself could fall victim to prejudices.

During the Vicksburg campaign, his father Jesse (Chief among scalawags!) showed up before Grant with three brothers as business partners who happened to be Jewish merchants, and demanded that Grant give them permits to purchase cotton. (This just one of Jesse's endless schemes to benefit himself through his son.) Grant sent them all back north on a train, but was so incensed by this as a general problem and his father's repeated schemes, that he attempted to outlaw all Jews within his department! While he himself was not an anti-semite, this became a dishonor he acknowledged and that he was never able to live down.
 

·
Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Joined
·
37,088 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks to all for your reassuring words that I am not a fool, but with all candor, I must tell you that there are more than a few out there who might want to debate you on that point (LOL).

I find myself continuing to wonder as to the obvious disconnect between the disturbing realities of current political conversations and events and the inspirational words from the iconic poem, titled "The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus, inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty which reads:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free."

These are the words that have greeted so many of those coming to this great nation of ours, seeking a new and better life. Are our national shoulders no longer broad enough, our collective hearts no longer big enough to welcome those poor souls facing great, life threatening challenges coming from locations that some might characterize as "sh*thole" countries? I greatly respect each of the three respondents above, for I am sure that each of these AAAC members has made personal sacrifices to provide for the greater good and to meet the needs of others over the courses of their lives and careers. That's what makes a country such as ours a great place in which to live and of which to be justly proud. Our national focus has turned inward, truncating our world vision and limiting the positive influence we may have been able to have on world affairs. I would certainly wish we could make the necessarily hard decisions regarding immigration policy, without denigrating/insulting those less fortunate. :(
 

·
Moderator and Bon Vivant
Joined
·
28,121 Posts
A few things:

1) I, too, was shocked to hear about the slush fund used to pay our sexual harassment claims. All the more reason to term limit these guys and after so many years, turn them back out into the real world to sink or swim (I'm guessing they'll sink).

2) though uncuthe and vulgar, I'm sorry but those countries are s***holes. Our immigration system needs to be completely overhauled to give preference to more skilled workers.
Except that citizens of the countries the POTUS feels are desirable have neither need nor much desire to emigrate. Leave Norway to live here? Whatever for?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,999 Posts
Except that citizens of the countries the POTUS feels are desirable have neither need nor much desire to emigrate. Leave Norway to live here? Whatever for?
Better pay and lower taxes depending on one's profession.

I know quite a few actually.

By the way, for all those who lament our racist immigration policies and look north or to Europe should consider Canada's immigration requirements which are merit based as well as the majority of Brits who want some semblance of control over their borders and economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,969 Posts
The way Trump has approached the subject, which is very crass, shouldn't be turning heads more than some of the Justices in 1973 voted that murder, by the name of abortion, is OK, in their polite way. Which, is far worse? The Supreme Court ruling still exists. Trump will be gone in a while and how much of what he does will even be around in a few year after?
The lie that political correctness is is still being pushed by the left. Before political correctness was invented, speech was more of a sport. The sport is far wiser than the political correctness, where the left keeps moving the goal post. I'd rather, by far, have crass and honesty than the other way around.
Abortion is murdering the innocent. The same people who keep abortion are against killing adults who choose to murder. Something is seriously wrong here when serious murder is not that bad and murdering the unborn is fine. Clearly the Democrat party is saying murder is fine, either way. Eagle, why are you not outraged by this? Isn't murder far more important than what Trump is doing? At least Trump has abortion and capital punishment correct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,182 Posts
Better pay and lower taxes depending on one's profession.

I know quite a few actually

By the way, for all those who lament our racist immigration policies and look north or to Europe should consider Canada's immigration requirements which are merit based as well as the majority of Brits who want some semblance of control over their borders and economy.
I am a veteran of the Navy. My brother did 6 years in the Navy. My 82 year old father is a retired U.S. Naval aviator with 296 missions over North Vietnam in A3D's and A6 Intruders. I grew up in and around U.S. Naval Air Stations.

Being a military brat I grew up in an environment of rich cultural and ethnic diversity.
I celebrate anyone who wishes to come to the United States and seek citizenship,...Legally. Our polarized media refuses to call people who are undocumented "Illegal Aliens." They are in fact illegal. Stating this objective fact, especially being "Not of color," means you will be labeled "Racist."

I am proud to be a U.S. Citizen.

But our government is corrupt. The best that can be said about our government is that it is not as corrupt as many others,......And that is not good enough. Our corporate media has been purchased by the same special interests that own our politicians.

The only worse choice for Speaker of the House rather than Paul Ryan would be Nancy Pelosi. The only worse choice for Senate Majority Leader verses Mitch McConnell, would be Chuck Shumer.
The only worse choice for President would have been a member of the Clinton crime family.

And the only example I can imagine that is more willfully ignorant than a partisan Democrat would be a partisan Republican.

I do realize how dystopian this sounds but being an avid current events junkie for almost four decades has brought me here.

In spite of it all I love my life.

I love the United States but I fear what our government has become.

Post script: Written on my tablet so please do not judge,....
 

·
Moderator and Bon Vivant
Joined
·
28,121 Posts
The election of 2016 gave us the worst choices in modern history. I refused to vote for POTUS though I faithfully completed the rest of my ballot. I am looking forward to a divided government after the 2018 election. But after that . . . ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,460 Posts
Here are some ideas I have read over the years.

1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.

2. Legal immigration must be conducted in a fair, efficient, and transparent manner with the qualifications for immigration being reasonable and beneficial to our nation.

3. Those who access our nation illegally or who overstay their visas should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and returned to their home countries without delay. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

4. Those who are in our country on a visa, if they commit any significant offence, should be deported. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

5. The children of non-citizens born in America should not be granted automatic citizenship. There should be a reasonable pathway to citizenship for these people, but it should not be an automatic birth rite of geography.

6. Those who are in America illegally should not have access to government services or benefits with the exception of life threatening medical situations.

7. America should prioritize support for impoverished nations in our immediate region in order to boost economies and stabilize governments to reduce the motivation to flee to America.

8. America should encourage family planning in the developing world to defuse the demographic time bomb facing the planet.

9. Military service, with an honorable discharge, would be a priority pathway to citizenship.

Cheers,

BSR
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,866 Posts
I am a veteran of the Navy. My brother did 6 years in the Navy. My 82 year old father is a retired U.S. Naval aviator with 296 missions over North Vietnam in A3D's and A6 Intruders. I grew up in and around U.S. Naval Air Stations.

Being a military brat I grew up in an environment of rich cultural and ethnic diversity.
I celebrate anyone who wishes to come to the United States and seek citizenship,...Legally. Our polarized media refuses to call people who are undocumented "Illegal Aliens. " They are in fact illegal. Stating this objective fact, especially being "Not of color," means you will be labeled "Racist."

I am proud to be a U.S. Citizen.

But our government is corrupt. The best that can be said about our government is that it is not as corrupt as many others,......And that is not good enough. Our corporate media has been purchased by the same special interests that own our politicians.

The only worse choice for Speaker of the House rather than Paul Ryan would be Nancy Pelosi. The only worse choice for Senate Majority Leader verses Mitch McConnell, would be Chuck Shumer.
The only worse choice for Persident would have been a member of the Clinton crime family.

And the only example I can imagine that is more willfully ignorant than a partisan Democrat would be a partisan Republican.

I do realize how dystopian this sounds but being an avid current events junkie for almost four decades has brought me here.

In spite of it all I love my life.

I love the United States but I fear what our government has become.

Post script: Written on my tablet so please do not judge,....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,866 Posts
Here are some ideas I have read over the years.

1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.

2. Legal immigration must be conducted in a fair, efficient, and transparent manner with the qualifications for immigration being reasonable and beneficial to our nation.

3. Those who access our nation illegally or who overstay their visas should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and returned to their home countries without delay. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

4. Those who are in our country on a visa, if they commit any significant offence, should be deported. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

5. The children of non-citizens born in America should not be granted automatic citizenship. There should be a reasonable pathway to citizenship for these people, but it should not be an automatic birth rite of geography.

6. Those who are in America illegally should not have access to government services or benefits with the exception of life threatening medical situations.

7. America should prioritize support for impoverished nations in our immediate region in order to boost economies and stabilize governments to reduce the motivation to flee to America.

8. America should encourage family planning in the developing world to defuse the demographic time bomb facing the planet.

9. Military service, with an honorable discharge, would be a priority pathway to citizenship.

Cheers,

BSR
Listening to NPR, I heard that Angela Merkel has finally succeeded in finding a coalition, and that an item on their agenda will be better control of Germany's borders!
 

·
Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Joined
·
37,088 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
^^"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"
over a period of perhaps 2000 years, the Great Wall of China was built to keep out the bad guys..."the undesirables!" It is now looked upon as one of the Great Wonders of the World! A wall along our southern boarder is not a bad thing, but 'the Great wall of the southern USA' would (arguably) be a prohibitively expensive undertaking and in all probability would not be completed during the period of a single political dynasty(;)). On the other hand an electronic fence could be completed much more quickly, at a much, much lower cost and it would more effectively perform the mission for which it was intended, but then, would it ever be considered to be one of the great wonders of the world? :icon_scratch:
 

·
Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Joined
·
37,088 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I read an article on the Yahoo news feed earlier this morning in which it was revealed that three of Fox New's hosts, including Jessie Watters, Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, had professed that the "Shithole countries" characterization was just how real people (real Americans) talk in a bar, over a beer and that it shouldn't be cause for so much concern. I'm not sure whether I should be repelled by these Fox New's Hosts or by the neanderthals who make such comments, if what the new's hosts have said is true(?)! However, if a guest in our home made such a comment, I am certain that they would be asked to leave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,666 Posts
It would have been much better if President Trump, instead of using That Noun, had said (in reference to Haiti, El Salvador, etc.) the following: “countries that have deep-seated, pervasive, and intractable political, economic, and social pathologies that make life hopeless for the inhabitants.”

But that’s not how people really talk in private.

Still, President Trump should have known that he was speaking with some of his political opponents and that, inevitably, his comment would be leaked, thereby creating an unnecessary distraction as well as a hit to our national dignity. So, even though what he said was not untrue, the pragmatic thing would have been to use a non-inflammatory noun or expression.

In any case, I always make a distinction between (a) the government of, and conditions in, a crappy country and (b) the many decent people who have the misfortune of living in that country. There are a lot of countries for which I wouldn’t give two pennies, but I am certainly open to having some of the people living there immigrate legally to the United States (indeed, I am the grandson of immigrants). I do ask that once—or shortly after—they arrive here, they pull their own freight and obey all laws.

One final word about our national dignity: I suspect that if we keep spreading the foreign aid, our national dignity will mysteriously recover as the recipients find it in their hearts to forgive and forget. Money: it’s the ultimate morning-after pill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,182 Posts
Here are some ideas I have read over the years.

1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.

2. Legal immigration must be conducted in a fair, efficient, and transparent manner with the qualifications for immigration being reasonable and beneficial to our nation.

3. Those who access our nation illegally or who overstay their visas should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and returned to their home countries without delay. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

4. Those who are in our country on a visa, if they commit any significant offence, should be deported. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law.

5. The children of non-citizens born in America should not be granted automatic citizenship. There should be a reasonable pathway to citizenship for these people, but it should not be an automatic birth rite of geography.

6. Those who are in America illegally should not have access to government services or benefits with the exception of life threatening medical situations.

7. America should prioritize support for impoverished nations in our immediate region in order to boost economies and stabilize governments to reduce the motivation to flee to America.

8. America should encourage family planning in the developing world to defuse the demographic time bomb facing the planet.

9. Military service, with an honorable discharge, would be a priority pathway to citizenship.

Cheers,

BSR
It is almost as though you read my thoughts. Spot on.
 
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top