Is Ben Silver Trad
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Yes.
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Ben Silver has many wares a Trad would like but not often at prices a Trad would pay. Their overall look makes many wares outside the Trad norm seem attractive to Trads. I find them to overlap but not align with Trad.
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More like Diet Trad or Trad Lite.
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Yes, insofar as there is a Southern tradition that parallels "trad" (there used to be a fair amount of discussion on this forum about that, especially the Southern fondness for pleats) I think Ben Silver is sort of the flagship store for that tradition.
On another note, I think you could make a "common law" argument for stores like Ben Silver as being part of a new trad canon. The type of people who used to wear the Ivy League look in South Carolina back in its heyday basically wear Ben Silver-style clothes now. But if you view "trad" as only Ivy League wear in its original mid-century crystalized form (An "originalist" perspective, haha?), the darts and pleats rule it out.
I know this is an old debate on this forum. But I'm taking conlaw right now, and so it is on my mind.
Very interesting Thanks.Yes, insofar as there is a Southern tradition that parallels "trad" (there used to be a fair amount of discussion on this forum about that, especially the Southern fondness for pleats) I think Ben Silver is sort of the flagship store for that tradition.
On another note, I think you could make a "common law" argument for stores like Ben Silver as being part of a new trad canon. The type of people who used to wear the Ivy League look in South Carolina back in its heyday basically wear Ben Silver-style clothes now. But if you view "trad" as only Ivy League wear in its original mid-century crystalized form (An "originalist" perspective, haha?), the darts and pleats rule it out.
I know this is an old debate on this forum. But I'm taking conlaw right now, and so it is on my mind.
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I'm not a expert on this but I would consider them to be a southern gentlemen's clothier with a few trad items. Nice stuff but expensive...
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Frank Zappa once posed the musical question:
“Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?”
Draw your own analogy.
“Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?”
Draw your own analogy.
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They have evolved over the past 20-25 years from almost exclusively traditional clothing to a more modern approach. Their early stock of jackets etc were almost exclusively 3/2 and nearly all of their shirts were OCBD or some variant of that. Nearly all of their ties were rep stripe. A move toward more English fashion lately.
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I think the above quotes get it right.
You're gonna be a good lawyer.Yes, insofar as there is a Southern tradition that parallels "trad" (there used to be a fair amount of discussion on this forum about that, especially the Southern fondness for pleats) I think Ben Silver is sort of the flagship store for that tradition.
On another note, I think you could make a "common law" argument for stores like Ben Silver as being part of a new trad canon. The type of people who used to wear the Ivy League look in South Carolina back in its heyday basically wear Ben Silver-style clothes now. But if you view "trad" as only Ivy League wear in its original mid-century crystalized form (An "originalist" perspective, haha?), the darts and pleats rule it out.
I know this is an old debate on this forum. But I'm taking conlaw right now, and so it is on my mind.
The only sentence I disagree with is the one that mentions the term "new trad canon." I think the term is an oxymoron. When a store sells both trad and non-trad clothing, that signifies that a store is selling both trad and non-trad clothing. Nothing more.
Generally, a garment cannot become either retroactively trad or trad by association. If all the guys who regularly post selfies in the Trad Forum were to throw out their OCBDs and replace them exclusively with shirts that had cutaway collars and French cuffs, the shirts would not miraculously become part of a "new trad canon." Something new would be happening, but it wouldn't be a "new trad canon." (A lot of people feel that Barbour coats have become trad by association, so perhaps that is one instance of an exception.)
There's no "new trad canon" manifesting itself in the store that sells trad and non-trad stuff. If you think you see a canon going on in the store (which would be preferable to a cannon going off in the store), feel free to give the canon a label. Just don't use "trad," because that word is already taken.
See what I've just done? I've just gotten myself ridiculously deep in the weeds. Which is ironic, because I have a simple philosophy: I wear what I like, and I don't try to classify it. And originalism rules.
Sorry. Now I'll let you get back to having fun.
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I would vote “yes”.
Then would Sid Mashburn similarly qualify? And at the same price point as Mr. Silver?
Cheers,
BSR
Then would Sid Mashburn similarly qualify? And at the same price point as Mr. Silver?
Cheers,
BSR
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Ouch! I wandered over to the Sid Mashburn website being nosy and figured I would do some light window shopping. Clicked on Sport Coats and NOPE! Ben Silver would even blush at those prices...
Ben Silver is an amazing shop. I only have one shirt, but my gosh, the fit, the fabric, the collar, the pocket. Fantastic. It's funny what my fave stores/looks are: In no particular order: TOMFORD; Ralph Lauren (Polo and PL, though the latter ahead of Polo, obviously); Paul Stuart, Ben Silver and O'Connells. There must be a common thread here and I think it is a certain timelessness that these clothes have that transcends the moment, but I am not totally sure. If others here have thoughts my selections I would love to hear them. I think the folks here are articulate and well informed and I always welcome the input.
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Regarding the above-quoted sentence:
Careful. A sentiment like that might be prudent in the real world. However, openly expressing it here could get you drummed out of the club. In our world, what does the part that comes before the conjunction "and" have to do with the part that comes after?
Regarding Peterc’s Observations...For this Trad it is an inescapable fact that there are almost always offerings that are nicer than what a Trad would pick, but still the Trad will gravitate to the lesser (although still exceptionally nice) offering. For example I love the Gitman for O’Connell’s not fused OCBDs, but they are roughly 60% of Ben Silver’s offerings and an even smaller percentage of some I’ve seen elsewhere. But they are correct for a Trad, baggy, of hefty Oxford cloth, and properly detailed. It has been my observation that many, perhaps most, items of apparel that are at the luxury level in workmanship and price have details and aspects that simply do not align with what a hide bound Trad wants. Perhaps this is an extension of the ability of boys in prep school to identify instantaneously the shirt that was not a Gant, the belt that was not a Canterbury, or the shoes that weren’t Weejuns. “It’s nicer” was not an acceptable excuse!
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A short digression: I'm probably late to the party--I'm slow to notice trends--but it has recently come to my attention that the younger crowd has turned the useful word "nope" into an intransitive verb. To "nope out of" something is to reject--and then voluntarily get away from--the thing. "I enrolled in a biology class, quickly realized it wasn't for me, then noped out of there."
When he saw the prices in the Sid Mashburn website, crispyfresh noped out of there.
I like it when people create a new word by giving a quirky--yet perfectly comprehensible--tweak to a familiar word. It is the elasticity of language that helps keep it alive.
I apologize if this is old news to you.
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And I had just become familiar with the verb version of "ghost," as in "ghosting" him or her.
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The Japanese probably first coined the term "trad", which they use as a short form of "traditional", and can refer to everything from what we're talking about to geisha dress. Flusser is probably the first person to use "trad" in print in North America (in his book on clothing stores in major cities) which he used to refer to Brooks Brother classic clothing from the 1950s to 1960s and whatnot, but which also included a lot of the British clothing & shoes BB sold at that time. I guess in the old days I was as guilty as anyone of over-thinking what "trad" could mean, but with the wisdom (snort) of middle-age I nowadays think the best use of the word is trad = traditional or "traditional American style" which means Ivy League styles, and then the two offshoots Updated American and Ivy League Look, plus the nostalgic style Preppy.
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