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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok I'm new to the details of fine ties. When I've bought 7 fold ties in the past the most obvious clue to their construction was always that the lining was the tie material. Is this a rule of thumb?
I just bought an ike behar at Nordstrom on sale for $30. The lining matches the tie but I'm not sure ike makes a 7 fold? Can anyone share some other clues or tests? Thanks
 

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Here is an example of what to look for.
 

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ok I'm new to the details of fine ties. When I've bought 7 fold ties in the past the most obvious clue to their construction was always that the lining was the tie material. Is this a rule of thumb?
I just bought an ike behar at Nordstrom on sale for $30. The lining matches the tie but I'm not sure ike makes a 7 fold? Can anyone share some other clues or tests? Thanks
Do not confuse self-tipping with being of 7-fold construction. Finer ties use self-tipping and self-looping. Many Ike Behar ties are constructed this way but they are not 7-fold. They have an interlining of wool to provide thickness. Seven-fold ties are completely constructed of the tie material with no wool interlining. You would not be able to buy a true 7-fold for $30. The minimum would probably be 220-250. I believe Nordstroms sells RT 7's for around 250.
 

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You would not be able to buy a true 7-fold for $30. The minimum would probably be 220-250. I believe Nordstroms sells RT 7's for around 250.
I bought a "true" 7 fold tie for $35 at the marshalls in jersey garden mall.:icon_smile_big:
As for Ike behar I dont think that they make 7 folds and if they made them Nordstrom wouldnt sell them for $30. What you bought is just a self tipping tie and you could have got that Ike Behar at Nordstrom Rack for $19, I've seen a lot of them plus Zegnas both ties and shoes as well as goodyear Canali shoes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's it; self tipping. I like the idea of seven fold ties but would have to think twice before dropping serious coin on them; a snag might induce tears.
The Rack is a great source for deals.
Thanks guys.
 

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I don't think that you should get especially hung up on the method of construction that a tie has. The marketing shtick about seven-fold ties is mostly that: marketing shtick. What matters with a tie is what kind of knot can be tied with it, how it drapes when it's tied, how resilient it is after it's been untied, and the quality of design and manufacture of the shell. I own more than one seven-fold. None of them tie great knots, and the lack of lining in the front blade means that they don't drape particularly well. That's not to say that I wouldn't buy more seven-folds in the future, just that I wouldn't be eager to pay more for that construction. If I have a choice (that is, if I'm ordering a bespoke tie from Sam Hober), I will choose either a three-fold or a six-fold construction.

(Oh, that's another thing -- a lot of the Italian-made ties marketed as seven-folds are really lined six-folds. There's nothing wrong with that construction, of course, but I wish that the marketers would be honest.)
 

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You would not be able to buy a true 7-fold for $30. The minimum would probably be 220-250.
I haven't counted recently, but I have at least a half-dozen 7-fold ties, none of which cost me more than $30, most considerably less than that. The key is careful shopping on Ebay.
 

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I don't think that you should get especially hung up on the method of construction that a tie has. The marketing shtick about seven-fold ties is mostly that: marketing shtick. What matters with a tie is what kind of knot can be tied with it, how it drapes when it's tied, how resilient it is after it's been untied, and the quality of design and manufacture of the shell. I own more than one seven-fold. None of them tie great knots, and the lack of lining in the front blade means that they don't drape particularly well. That's not to say that I wouldn't buy more seven-folds in the future, just that I wouldn't be eager to pay more for that construction. If I have a choice (that is, if I'm ordering a bespoke tie from Sam Hober), I will choose either a three-fold or a six-fold construction.

(Oh, that's another thing -- a lot of the Italian-made ties marketed as seven-folds are really lined six-folds. There's nothing wrong with that construction, of course, but I wish that the marketers would be honest.)
JCusey,

Great post.

Atillahun,

To spot a classic unlined seven-fold simply turn it over and count the folds. Counting folds on both sides one by one. as a point of reference most ties have three folds: one on each side and one in the middle.

The seventh fold will only be on one side and typically small and hard to see. Also you will not see any tipping or linining on the tie.

With that said do not worry about the number of folds instead trust your instinct it will usually be correct and you will end up with a nice tie.

Go for a low priced 7-fold on eBay just to experiment. As John has noted they will usually be a lined 6-fold, not a classic unlined 7-fold.

Most sales clerks have very little knowledge about tie construction and will not know the difference between a 6 and 7 fold so you can explain it to them. If you have a store near you that carries Robert Talbott ties such as Nordstrom you can take a look at Talbott's 7-folds which are classic unlined 7-folds.

Down the road if you want to think about custom/bespoke ties the difference between a 6 and 7 fold tie will be important to understand but for now you may want to buy based on colors and patterns that you like and gradually add other criteria such as silk weight tie shape and length etc..
 

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I haven't counted recently, but I have at least a half-dozen 7-fold ties, none of which cost me more than $30, most considerably less than that. The key is careful shopping on Ebay.
Rip - I was mostly referring to standard retail brick and mortar prices - but even online have have not run into many 7-folds for under $30. Ever consider a career as a personal shopper? I'll sign up to be one of your clients! :icon_smile:

On another note, I was going to start a new thread on this issue but I think discussing it here would be appropriate. First of all, I consider myself a pretty good judge of tie quality and am able to judge value pretty well. How do you guys handle it when you find "THE tie" you have been looking for but you know is is way overpriced? Do you suck it up and pull the trigger or walk away?

The reason I bring this up is I stopped by Nordstroms the other day and found just about the exact tie I had been on the prowl for. It was a navy Zegna made out of a very unusual silk textured weave with a subtle woven geometric/floral design on it. The tie had a wonderful hand and beautiful drape and it was quite unique in terms of texture. It was not 7-fold and it wasn't even self-tipped which I found dissapointing. Initially I thought it would be in the $95-$135 range. But to my shock the price was $160! :cry: I know that it is not worth that much! I mean you can get Charvet, Burberry, and Hermes still for 135-150. My tailor always carries beautiful ties of excellent quality for $75-95. Needless to say I walked away but damn - I am still thinking about that tie. Now considering I think the tie was really only worth a maximum of $135 at full brick and mortar prices - how many of you would have paid the extra $25? What is your "walk a way" price or do you buy what you like no matter what?

I was just in Brooks Brother the other day and found they had a stock of Golden Fleece handsewn ties for $125 (excellent quality, self-tipped, self-looped, slip stitch, good hand but mediocre drape - little on the stiff side). That's $35 less, or roughly 20% than the Zegna for comparison.

Thoughts?
 

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...How do you guys handle it when you find "THE tie" you have been looking for but you know is is way overpriced? Do you suck it up and pull the trigger or walk away?...
I was in Chicago about a month ago, and after loading up on $7 sea island cotton Robert Talbot socks at Filene's Basement I crossed the road to have a walk around the Ralph Lauren shop. I have no will power at all when it comes to woven houndstooth check ties, and they happened to have the perfect RLPL black and silver houndstooth check tie. I mean it was approaching the Platonic ideal for black and silver houndstooth check ties. It was on sale for $75, 50% off the list price of $150. My credit card came out so fast people's toupes were lifting up in the slipstream.

It wasn't a pretty sight.
 

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Seven-fold ties seem to look good from what I've seen. I don't particularly mind lack of drape... the vintage ties I have use very thin (with unlined tip) or no lining at all so I'm used to it. I'm more concerned about how well they tie a four in hand. I like mine to be modest, like Cary Grant's, so seven-folds are probably not for me. There are guys who make thick ties look good, however.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for all the good feedback. I agree with not getting hung up on construction but with the end game; finding a great tie that looks good and will last. I will definitely experiment with a seven fold and see how things go. I'm pretty tall and struggle with small knots, so the idea of a beefier knot by virtue of the seven fold intrigues me...
 

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Thanks for all the good feedback. I agree with not getting hung up on construction but with the end game; finding a great tie that looks good and will last. I will definitely experiment with a seven fold and see how things go. I'm pretty tall and struggle with small knots, so the idea of a beefier knot by virtue of the seven fold intrigues me...
All things being equal unlined seven-folds will make a smaller knot not a bigger one.

It sounds like you need a tie with the correct length and shape.
 
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