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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Aside from general statements like "make sure your collar doesn't look like it's swallowing up your neck" or "shouldn't be so short that your head looks big", are there are any guidelines, tips, general rules for determining the proper acceptable range for shirt collar height (rear height, rear/front band height, etc)?

When a good bespoke tailor is making a shirt pattern, how are they deciding what works best for collar height in the front and back? Is it purely based on what seems to look best or is there a bit of methodology behind the measurements?

Note: I'm not referring to collar point length or spread.

Screen Shot 2021-10-07 at 2.00.05 PM.png
 

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Fashion is subjective. So, there has to be as many answers to your question as there are men who care enough to notice the collar height/length on their shirts.

Bottom line, it is a matter of personal taste.
A similar debate exists concerning lapel widths and trouser cuffs or "Turn-ups" as some know them.

I called O'Connell's menswear this past week to check on the collar length/height of a shirt that I noticed new to their inventory. The salesman assured me that they do not sell as shirt with a collar height/length of less than 3 inches.

All of the Mercer and Son's shirts that I prefer have "Trademark 3 7/16" collars."

I think that you will find a substantial percentage of the members here at AAAC are more old school than members of other internet fashion forums. (Meaning that 3 inch or slightly longer collars are preferred.)

Here's an image of a fellow who is quite *eccentric in terms of his preference of shirt collars and wide neckties. (*It is known as eccentric when one has a boatload of money or just plain crazy if one is of humble means.) :)

The Queen of England's cousin, Prince Michael of Kent:

PMofKent.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here's an image of a fellow who is quite *eccentric in terms of his preference of shirt collars and wide neckties. (*It is known as eccentric when one has a boatload of money or just plain crazy if one is of humble means.) :)

The Queen of England's cousin, Prince Michael of Kent:

View attachment 69551
The collar height of Prince Michael of Kent looks great to me! Those Mercer & Son's shirts you referred to - does the 3 7/16" refer to the rear collar height? Or are you referring to the collar points?
 

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Aside from general statements like "make sure your collar doesn't look like it's swallowing up your neck" or "shouldn't be so short that your head looks big", are there are any guidelines, tips, general rules for determining the proper acceptable range for shirt collar height (rear height, rear/front band height, etc)?

When a good bespoke tailor is making a shirt pattern, how are they deciding what works best for collar height in the front and back? Is it purely based on what seems to look best or is there a bit of methodology behind the measurements?

Note: I'm not referring to collar point length or spread.

View attachment 69549
Simple question, not so simple answer. I've two bespoke shirt makers in my life, and yes, each had a formula for calculating this, but I never inquired, as I was just interested in the results. That said, a bespoke, a shirt maker can and should also be willing and able to adjust collar height to personal preference, and vary it, for different styles of shirt. I made requests for slight adjustments, and there was no problem for the to do them. Another example is Daniel Levy, a bespoke shirt maker in Paris, and as you'll note from his blog, he makes many shirts with many different heights to suit individual clients' preferences, as well as their physique -

https://did%3Dbe2289c151afab50d53f2cf00e3e7a7b98c27c2f%3Bid%3D666851282564333568%3Bkey%3DtkDHSOYe5kYcIzOL6Agr5w%3Bname%3Ddaniel-levy-chemisier
Obviously, the collar height is going to vary dependent upon the length of one's neck. As noted, Prince Michael has a longer one. One guideline that might be useful is that a buttoned collar should extend roughly 1/2" above a well fitted suit/sport jacket. So that should aid in determining the collar height. I hesitate to say to simply measure the collar height on such a shirt, as I suspect the issue may have some complicating factors involving other aspects of fit, and I'm not sure if they will all be identical from shirt style to shirt style.
 

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Does anyone know if there's a somewhat "timeless standard" range for collar band and leaf height on shirts that most decent shirtmaker follow? This would be a good starting point, I suppose.
As with virtually any standard, I'm sure the is a standard, or at least average range. Sorry I do not know this. But I just measured the collar band on one of my Brooks BD's, which I consider fits quite well, and it measures about 1 1/2", so that might not be a bad place to start.

But even more significantly, a tall man with a longer neck is going to need a wider band to look proportionate and fit his jacket, and a smaller guy will need to scale down for the same reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
But I just measured the collar band on one of my Brooks BD's, which I consider fits quite well, and it measures about 1 1/2", so that might not be a bad place to start.
In my closet were Mercer, Gitman for O'Connell's, and Brooks Brothers old enough to have a pocket and required ironing. All were OCBDs and had 1 1/4" collar bands.
On these shirts, is the rear collar leaf around 1 3/4" - 2"?
 

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Does anyone know if there's a somewhat "timeless standard" range for collar band and leaf height on shirts that most decent shirtmaker follow? This would be a good starting point, I suppose.
I don't think you're going to get better-or different-responses than the ones you've received so far.

It's difficult to give you a more satisfying answer because your questions are inherently contradictory. (That's why you're back at square one.)

Here's the problem:

Consider your first post in this thread. On the one hand, you are looking for "guidelines…and general rules for determining the proper acceptable range for shirt collar height." Thus, you seem to be looking for a kind of template…or rules of thumb.

(I suppose a manager at a company that churns out hundreds of ready-made shirts per week could answer that question.)

However, in the second part of your initial post, you narrow things down. You say that you want to know how "a good bespoke tailor [who] is making a shirt pattern" decides "what works best for collar height."

Now we have a dilemma because a maker of "bespoke" shirts doesn't use "guidelines" and "general rules." Each pattern he makes is unique to the respective client.

So do you want generalities-which apply to mass-market shirts-or do you want to know how bespoke shirtmakers figure out collar specs-a process that is the opposite of generalities?

It's as if you're asking us to tell you which brand of spork do 5-star restaurants set on the table. Tough to answer that one.

(Between the factories that make mass-produced shirts and the tailors who make bespoke shirts are the made-to-measure companies. The latter, however, don't usually offer a choice of collar heights. You could ask some of them, though, if they do and how they figure out dimensions.)

You might get a semi-helpful answer if you ask your question on the Style Forum. Chris Despos, a highly-regarded custom tailor, is a member over there. He's responsive to the other members.
 

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Ahh, maybe I have the terminology wrong. There's the band and then there's the part that folds over, which I thought was called the leaf but maybe not?

View attachment 69653
Or maybe you have it right. Frankly, I don't know. Just measured the same Brooks shirt and at the center of the collar, the portion you term the leaf is also 1 1/2".
 

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I think the standard for rear collar leaf height is 1 1/2" to 1 3/4". I find that it's too short for me and I like at least 1 7/8", but I have some at 2 1/4" that I love. That is a very high collar. I think the 1 3/4" to 2" range works well for most people.

For the front height, the standard is usually around 1" to 1 1/8". I like at least 1 1/4" and go up to 1 1/2". My 2-button collar might be higher. Most people look better with higher collars than what they're wearing. I've never heard of any system for collar height, but it has to balance the neck length and sit under the Adam's Apple.
 

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Aside from general statements like "make sure your collar doesn't look like it's swallowing up your neck" or "shouldn't be so short that your head looks big", are there are any guidelines, tips, general rules for determining the proper acceptable range for shirt collar height (rear height, rear/front band height, etc)?

When a good bespoke tailor is making a shirt pattern, how are they deciding what works best for collar height in the front and back? Is it purely based on what seems to look best or is there a bit of methodology behind the measurements?

Note: I'm not referring to collar point length or spread.

View attachment 69549
Hello everyone. I have mentioned here before that Anto makes my bespoke shirts and has been doing so for quite some time now. When I visit every so often, they redo my measurements and pattern and then give recommendations. I honestly have no idea what the measurements are as I place a certain amount of trust in the professionals. That's what I'm paying for. I just instinctively digest their recommendations and then ask for a few minor adjustments and everything is fine in the end.

Cloth changes and my body changes every time I move. Ultimately, don't worry too much. Hobbies are meant to enrich your life. Not diminish it.

Remember to coordinate!
 

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Happydays123–

Thank you. When you visit Anto, do you shout “LAAAAAADEEEEE!!!!!”

Anto made shirts for Jerry Lewis.

Jerry Lewis also wore a brand-new pair of socks every day. “I like the feeling of new,” he said.

I don’t know if the socks were bespoke.

Somewhere on YouTube is a video of Jerry preparing for one of his Labor Day telethons. It includes a brief view of his dressing room, and you can see a clothes rack on which are hanging multiple tuxedos and formal shirts. In one close-up shot, the “Anto” label is visible inside a shirt.
 

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Hi again all. I wanted to mention something because some probably missed the joke. If you go over to the thread “satorial videos” and find my recent post you’ll see what I meant and hopefully I can brighten up everyone’s day with a little humor!

Whatever the shirt, always remember to coordinate!
 
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