[FLMike]

Their use of foul language meant to him they were not ladies, therefore the hat could go back on his head.

Bingo. Cool story.

 

[godan]

I take exception to the concept that there is but one Trad. Rocky Mountain Trad (puffy vests, denim, hiking boots are all climate/terrain appropriate), West Coast surfer dude Trad (Pendleton board shirts, Topsters, dark denim) are well-established on the forum. So why not a Southern Gentleman Trad with the above points? Makes perfect sense.

I know this for a fact with regard to the Pacific Northwest version of Rocky Mountain Trad. In high school, I wore desert boots, jeans and a Pendleton shirt. I ran some errands today in exactly the same outfit, adding a Gore-Tex shell, which we didn't have then but would have worn if it had been available.

 

[winghus]

It's still done in certain circles:

https://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/05/54cea5c87ec12_-_esq-seersucker-suit-ban-042613-1uwdpi-xl.jpg

I can remember the old-timer bankers at a certain institution wearing black dress shoes with seersucker. White button downs only. Blue would be frowned upon, and any other color you would be sent home to change.

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[fishertw]

It's still done in certain circles:

https://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/05/54cea5c87ec12_-_esq-seersucker-suit-ban-042613-1uwdpi-xl.jpg

If I recall correctly, this photo or a similar one was posted a number of years ago on this forum around what was referred to as "National Seersucker Day".

 

[Charles Dana]

I take exception to the concept that there is but one Trad. Rocky Mountain Trad (puffy vests, denim, hiking boots are all climate/terrain appropriate), West Coast surfer dude Trad (Pendleton board shirts, Topsters, dark denim) are well-established on the forum. So why not a Southern Gentleman Trad with the above points? Makes perfect sense.

This is the first time I've seen the words "Trad" and "surfer dude" in the same sentence.

Harris must be spinning in his...rumpus room. He'd better stop--he's liable to wear a hole in his J.Press shaggy dog.

So jeans can be "Trad" depending on the context?

Any look can be "Trad" provided that it is something that for a long time has clearly been associated with a definable demographic in a particular American region?

Fascinating.

 

[FLMike]

This is the first time I've seen the words "Trad" and "surfer dude" in the same sentence.

Harris must be spinning in his...rumpus room. He'd better stop--he's liable to wear a hole in his J.Press shaggy dog.

So jeans can be "Trad" depending on the context?

Any look can be "Trad" provided that it is something that for a long time has clearly been associated with a definable demographic in a particular American region?

Fascinating.

I don't think Oldsarge has ever purported to be Trad.....so maybe, consider the source.

 

[eagle2250]

^^
For many of us an occasional failure to properly embrace the "Trad Creed/Dictate" constitutes nothing more than a venial sin, rather than a mortal sin of sartorial transgression! LOL. Our wardrobes were meant to be enjoyed. I like to keep that in perspective.

 

[Charles Dana]

^^
For many of us an occasional failure to properly embrace the "Trad Creed/Dictate" constitutes nothing more than a venial sin, rather than a mortal sin of sartorial transgression! LOL. Our wardrobes were meant to be enjoyed. I like to keep that in perspective.

Yes, you are correct. I'm only a part-time "Trad" myself.

As for Harris, he's doing well. I called 9-1-1 and had the paramedics check on him. After all that spinning, he was a bit dizzy, as you can imagine, but he's resting comfortably now. More importantly, his Shetland sweater came through the experience unscathed.

 

[Oldsarge]

This is the first time I've seen the words "Trad" and "surfer dude" in the same sentence.

Harris must be spinning in his...rumpus room. He'd better stop--he's liable to wear a hole in his J.Press shaggy dog.

So jeans can be "Trad" depending on the context?

Any look can be "Trad" provided that it is something that for a long time has clearly been associated with a definable demographic in a particular American region?

Fascinating.

Why not? Heck, British Country Clothing would be far more Trad than a BB sack suit for someone living in Wessex. It's been around longer. Places outside the Ivy League do have traditions, after all.

 

[Charles Dana]

Places outside the Ivy League do have traditions, after all.

True. Absolutely, undeniably true.

But "Trad" isn't short for "traditional." "Trad" has a much narrower meaning.

"Trad" describes the clothing and overall look that Harris and other like-minded persons have favored for decades--the kinds of things that they would buy at J Press, The Andover Shop, and similar merchants.

All "Trad" clothing is traditional, but not all traditional clothing is "Trad."

Harris coined the word "Trad" in an attempt to describe not just any kind of traditional clothes, but an identifiable sub-type of traditional clothes: the clothes that he likes, whether they originated in England or the American South or New Haven, Connecticut. The boundaries of that subset are admittedly fuzzy, because Harris' definition of "Trad" is sketchy rather than exhaustive, but that doesn't mean that anything that's traditional can be lumped into his subset.

I have nothing against dividing the huge category of "Traditional Clothes" into sub-categories. However, since Harris has already assigned the word "Trad" to one sub-category, I think we should find another word for the other sub-categories and leave his word alone.

Why not simply use "Traditional"? Thus, there would be "Pacific Northwest Traditional," "Rocky Mountain Traditional," "Southern California Surfer Traditional," and so on.

If we are going to affix the "Trad" label to any subset of traditional clothes, then all right--after all, it's just stuff we wear, so no big deal. But at least, as we are doing so, we should be aware of two things:

1. Slapping "Trad" onto a bunch of sub-categories causes us to stray far afield from the garments that Harris had in mind when he started this shebang, thereby corrupting the word that he coined; and

2. We are not making any sense:

(a) "Trad" means, roughly, the Ivy-League-inspired (but not necessarily Ivy League) clothing that Harris prefers. Harris' description of "Trad," while subject to some interpretation, cannot reasonably be said to even approach, say, the garments that have long been sported by ranchers in the Rocky Mountains or the surfers of Southern California. Therefore:

(b) There can be no such thing, for instance, as "Rocky Mountain Trad" or "Pacific Northwest Trad" because a sub-category cannot be both Trad and not-Trad at the same time. (But there sure can be "Rocky Mountain Traditional" and so forth.) If it's Rocky Mountain, then it cannot be Trad. If it's Trad, then it cannot be Rocky Mountain.

Individual garments can be both "traditional" and "Trad"--desert boots, khakis, wheat jeans, and flannel shirts, to name a few. Jeans and cowboy hats, while traditional in some contexts, are never "Trad."

If you wish to use "Trad" as if it were just a shortened version of "Traditional," feel free. Doing that, however, will muddy the waters. And make Harris weep.

 

[Oldsarge]

Speaking of whom, shouldn't he be here defending his definition? :teacha:

 

[Charles Dana]

Speaking of whom, shouldn't he be here defending his definition? :teacha:

Oracles don't feel the need to explain themselves.

 

[Clintotron]

I'm all for identifying "XYZ Traditional" in general terms. I know there are a lot of things done here in the South that aren't done the same or at all up north, or in the other time zones (MST, PST, AKST, HST/HAST) and versa vice. I think the Southern Gentleman Traditional and what would be the Southern Trad are definitely different. I see the Southern Trad as being like the Old South university fraternity guys/graduates, whereas the Southern Gentleman Traditional is more geared toward the formal; Colonel Sanders comes to mind. This was, after all, standard daily attire back then. I'm embarrassed of what is going on these days...


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[eagle2250]

Yes, you are correct. I'm only a part-time "Trad" myself.

As for Harris, he's doing well. I called 9-1-1 and had the paramedics check on him. After all that spinning, he was a bit dizzy, as you can imagine, but he's resting comfortably now. More importantly, his Shetland sweater came through the experience unscathed.

Egad! I haven't even been able to wear my "Shetland sweater(s)" in over a year, since the wife and I took up residence on this peninsula we are now calling home. The future incidence of such opportunities seems extremely remote.

PS: Well done regarding your post #30....an excellent treatise on and defense of the Trad concept, as envisioned by Harris. :thumbs-up:

 

[Charles Dana]

PS: Well done regarding your post #30....an excellent treatise on and defense of the Trad concept, as envisioned by Harris. :thumbs-up:

Thank you!

If anyone has the time and inclination, it's instructive to read Harris' many posts from 8 to 10 years ago. In them, he goes into detail about the clothing he likes. As expected, not a word about traditional ranchwear or surferwear, but plenty about Press and Mercer OCBDs, O'Connell's, Shetland sweaters, flannel trousers, tweed sport coats, Southwick suits, loafers, Hober neckties, etc.--the good stuff that the word "Trad" was meant to capture.

 

[tda003]

The time frame of the anecdote about my grandfather occurred when I was 6 or 7 years old, around 1951 or 2. The feminist movement didn't come into its own for some years later. The two women in question were merely continuing a conversation started earlier. My grandfather's deeply held conviction as a Southern gentleman was that "ladies" did not curse. The two cursed and, thus, weren't ladies and he, therefore wasn't required to doff his hat.

It's sad to have to explain this, but it does speak volumes to the state of our culture.

 

[tda003]

There are certain southern idiosyncrasies about Southern trad dress. Although judging from posts elsewhere in this forum, tassel loafers of the Alden Grayson or AE Acheson type are considered relatively casual, here they are perfectly suitable for wear with business suits and even at semi-formal evening events. I have even seen them worn once or twice with a tuxedo, but that was beyond the pale.

 

[Bermuda]

recently got a Southern Tide shirt and wore it to Puerto Rico

 

[tda003]

Two Southern labels selling Southern trad sports wear are Coast (Pawley's Island, SC) and High Cotton in Raeigh, NC. Coast has a crab logo and High Cotton uses a stylized boll weavil. Both used to make excellent polo shirts buth no longer do. Apparently, Southern Tide has taken over the Southern trad/collegian business. You can still find Coast on places like eBay, but it's been awhile since I've seen a High Cotton polo for sale. They both still make sport shirts, I believe.

 

[Bermuda]

my red Southern Tide polo has superior material. excellent