[rs525]

So I've gotten two different pairs of khakis so far to try and find which types of pleats are best for me, and I'm not having much luck. The first pair, double reverse pleats, seems like too much and the second pair, single reverse, now seems like too little. Both also have the problem of the pleats not staying closed even though I specified 1.5" pleat depth. What I want to know is the following: Do I need to increase my pants hip size to compensate, would single or double forward pleats work better for my body type (5'9", 183 lbs mostly in gut with large thighs) and what should the standard pleat depth be? Can post pictures if necessary, any advice is appreciated.

 

[Charles Dana]

Yes, photos would aid in the diagnosis of your ailment.

Where did these khakis come from?

 

[rs525]

Yes, photos would aid in the diagnosis of your ailment.

Where did these khakis come from?

Custom made from Luxire

 

[Matt S]

The kind of pleats or depth of the pleats doesn't matter. It's all about the fit. If the pleats aren't staying closed, it's because there's not enough room at either the hips or the seat. Photos will help us see where the trousers are too tight. I find forward pleats are more flattering than reverse pleats, but if they don't fit right it's more noticeable than with reverse pleats.

 

[Flanderian]

Yes, photos would aid in the diagnosis of your ailment.

Where did these khakis come from?

The kind of pleats or depth of the pleats doesn't matter. It's all about the fit. If the pleats aren't staying closed, it's because there's not enough room at either the hips or the seat. Photos will help us see where the trousers are too tight. I find forward pleats are more flattering than reverse pleats, but if they don't fit right it's more noticeable than with reverse pleats.

+1!

 

[215339]

The kind of pleats or depth of the pleats doesn't matter. It's all about the fit. If the pleats aren't staying closed, it's because there's not enough room at either the hips or the seat. Photos will help us see where the trousers are too tight. I find forward pleats are more flattering than reverse pleats, but if they don't fit right it's more noticeable than with reverse pleats.

I've heard that's why many OTR makers offer pants in single reverse pleats vs. forward.

 

[rs525]

Sorry for the poor quality but here are the photos. The first one is the double reverse pleats.

The second is the single reverse pleat, plus a side view.

Both pants are worn at my natural waist.

 

[Flanderian]

Sorry for the poor quality but here are the photos. The first one is the double reverse pleats.
View attachment 86711
The second is the single reverse pleat, plus a side view.
View attachment 86713
View attachment 86712
Both pants are worn at my natural waist.

Sorry, but they don't look to fit you properly, the double worse than the single. The placement of the pleats on the double is very odd, too far from the center. Rather looks like a smaller size cobbled up to fit your waist. If you're going to wear pleats like this, you also need more room through the leg for the trousers to hang properly, and the rise also looks a bit low for this style.

Can't really tell, but it looks like you've got a pretty flat seat, but something is definitely still pulling. But also remember that when you see someone posed you can get an unrealistic expectation of how pleats might lie. First the subject's posture is carefully selected for their perfect physique, and everything is pressed down so the cloth is perfectly smooth with knife-like edges.

 

[Matt S]

I think the problem has to do with the shape of the legs. The taper isn't correct, and the front/back balance is probably off. You can have narrow legs with pleats, but they need to be cut perfectly to work. I have a pair of double-forward-pleat bespoke trousers with deep pleats and narrow legs, and they drape well because the shape is right.

 

[rs525]

Sorry, but they don't look to fit you properly, the double worse than the single. The placement of the pleats on the double is very odd, too far from the center. Rather looks like a smaller size cobbled up to fit your waist. If you're going to wear pleats like this, you also need more room through the leg for the trousers to hang properly, and the rise also looks a bit low for this style.

Can't really tell, but it looks like you've got a pretty flat seat, but something is definitely still pulling. But also remember that when you see someone posed you can get an unrealistic expectation of how pleats might lie. First the subject's posture is carefully selected for their perfect physique, and everything is pressed down so the cloth is perfectly smooth with knife like edges.

I do have a pretty flat seat. So it looks like I need more room in the leg and hips. I should have enough room in both pants to stretch the legs out. Also looking at the photos it seems single reverse pleats work better than double reverse pleats for me. Trying to get the fit right on clothes sucks!

 

[Flanderian]

I think the problem has to do with the shape of the legs. The taper isn't correct, and the front/back balance is probably off. You can have narrow legs with pleats, but they need to be cut perfectly to work. I have a pair of double-forward-pleat bespoke trousers with deep pleats and narrow legs, and they drape well because the shape is right.

+1!

I do have a pretty flat seat. So it looks like I need more room in the leg and hips. I should have enough room in both pants to stretch the legs out. Also looking at the photos it seems single reverse pleats work better than double reverse pleats for me. Trying to get the fit right on clothes sucks!

BTW, as one shorter legged guy to another, you may wish to consider shortening your trousers a bit. Not to the ridiculous extent of some fashion, but as a generality, shorter legged men's legs look least short in trousers no longer than they need to be. For me wearing khakis, that means just touching my shoes.

 

[rs525]

My body shape is bizarre to say the least. Most of the weight in my torso and thighs, flat behind and slightly longer torso in proportion to my legs.
For the single pleated pants, the legs were also a bit too long. Luxire messed that part up as well as giving me a coin pocket and split waistband when I said not to put them in under my saved style. Still needed to have altered anyway, despite already spending $129 on these pants!

 

[drpeter]

I agree with most of the comments offered above. The factors that stand out most for me are the narrowness of the legs and their length. Your trousers have been cut so that they fit around your waist and then taper quite a bit. They also pool around your shoes. In my opinion, the more the legs are tapered, the more odd the look, since most of us do not have perfectly proportioned legs which strike a good balance with the torso. Given the realities of life and age, we tend to acquire more weight around the waist and this makes our legs seem disproportionately thin.

Changing these two aspects can improve the situation dramatically. As many have remarked, these trousers should be fitted around the waist and then be given some space to drape properly. Straighter legs will balance things much better between the waist and the cuff. Not sure if it is the latest fashion, but narrow trouser legs with sharp taper flatters very few men if any, and those men tend to be teenagers! So I cannot understand the preference for narrow legs.

 

[rs525]

I agree with most of the comments offered above. The factors that stand out most for me are the narrowness of the legs and their length. Your trousers have been cut so that they fit around your waist and then taper quite a bit. They also pool around your shoes. In my opinion, the more the legs are tapered, the more odd the look, since most of us do not have perfectly proportioned legs which strike a good balance with the torso. Given the realities of life and age, we tend to acquire more weight around the waist and this makes our legs seem disproportionately thin.

Changing these two aspects can improve the situation dramatically. As many have remarked, these trousers should be fitted around the waist and then be given some space to drape properly. Straighter legs will balance things much better between the waist and the cuff. Not sure if it is the latest fashion, but narrow trouser legs with sharp taper flatters very few men if any, and those men tend to be teenagers! So I cannot understand the preference for narrow legs.

Thank you so much. You nailed it on the head. When I got the double pleated pants altered, I had asked for a taper cause the legs seemed too baggy. Guess they went too far and I just need to accept having slightly baggy legs. I'm going to try another alterations person. The problem is as I said my body proportions are far from ideal with a large gut and thighs, no behind and skinnier legs.

 

[drpeter]

The problem is as I said my body proportions are far from ideal with a large gut and thighs, no behind and skinnier legs.

One of the things a tailor should do for you when you get custom-made clothes is a consultation on the best cut and profile that will suit your body shape. A good tailor (at least when working on bespoke clothing) is skilled at hiding oddities caused by less than perfect proportions or even by some defects (95% of men are not perfectly proportioned, LOL). One thought I had when going through the posts above was that you could send some photos of yourself to the tailor who will be making these trousers (that is what you have done here in this thread, after all). In that way, the tailor would get a general idea of your proportions, and these, together with measurements might help the tailor formulate the best proportions when cutting the trousers for your torso and legs. Ideally, you would visit the tailor for fittings, but I gather that is not possible.

 

[Flanderian]

Thank you so much. You nailed it on the head. When I got the double pleated pants altered, I had asked for a taper cause the legs seemed too baggy. Guess they went too far and I just need to accept having slightly baggy legs. I'm going to try another alterations person. The problem is as I said my body proportions are far from ideal with a large gut and thighs, no behind and skinnier legs.

To paraphrase what G. Bruce Boyer has said, the goal isn't fit, it's effect. Almost all of us have ungainly physiques to varying degrees, so if you simply replicate this in cloth, you're left with ungainly looking clothing.

I have found the single most important principle is to ignore fashion, figure out what is most flattering for your physique and seek that. If you feel that your larger waist and thighs, and skinny legs are undesirable. the last thing you want to do is to replicate the same form in cloth. You don't want to look fashionable, you want to look GOOD!

So if you see fashion photos of guys wearing trousers that fit snugly through the legs, and consequently perceive looser fitting trousers as baggy, the issue may not be the trousers, but your perception of how they should look.

It's hard to find an alteration tailor who can alter our perceptions!

What the heck am I talkin' about?

About as close to perfection as I've seen.

 

[Matt S]

To paraphrase what G. Bruce Boyer has said, the goal isn't fit, it's effect. Almost all of us have ungainly physiques to varying degrees, so if you simply replicate this in cloth, you're left with ungainly looking clothing.

I have found the single most important principle is to ignore fashion, figure out what is most flattering for your physique and seek that. If you feel that your larger waist and thighs, and skinny legs are undesirable. the last thing you want to do is to replicate the same form in cloth. You don't want to look fashionable, you want to look GOOD!

So if you see fashion photos of guys wearing trousers that fit snugly through the legs, and consequently perceive looser fitting trousers as baggy, the issue may not be the trousers, but your perception of how they should look.

It's hard to find an alteration tailor who can alter our perceptions!

What the heck am I talkin' about?

About as close to perfection as I've seen.

View attachment 86728

View attachment 86729

Excellent points! Well-fitting clothing has to drape neatly and move comfortably with the body without worrying even thinking about correcting the body's proportions, and that's challenging enough. With trousers there are so many challenges. The trousers you pictured look perfect, but this man is slim so there aren't as many challenges.

 

[Flanderian]

Excellent points! Well-fitting clothing has to drape neatly and move comfortably with the body without worrying even thinking about correcting the body's proportions, and that's challenging enough. With trousers there are so many challenges. The trousers you pictured look perfect, but this man is slim so there aren't as many challenges.

Important point! Yes, the gentleman in the photo is slender with narrower hips and thighs which makes dressing him easier.

The OP is never going to look exactly like the photos as his physique is different. But a more similar fit may allow him to look as good as his physique allows.

And while I prefer double pleats, his particular physique might be best served by a single pleat.

 

[Matt S]

Important point! Yes, the gentleman in the photo is slender with narrower hips and thighs which makes dressing him easier.

The OP is never going to look exactly like the photos as his physique is different. But a more similar fit may allow him to look as good as his physique allows.

And while I prefer double pleats, his particular physique might be best served by a single pleat.

What the OP needs is a trimmer thigh with a straighter leg. A full thigh is only good if one has a large seat. With wool trousers, it's easier to get clean lines in any style because they stay pressed and the pleats stay neat. In general, the second pleat keeps the main pleat looking neater. With cotton khakis, they don't hold a press very well, so the pleats are looking sloppier. Last month I took out a pair of chinos with double forward pleats that I hadn't worn in about five years. I pressed them, and they looked fantastic. I wore them again a few more times before putting them in the laundry. Each time I wore them, they lost their crispness from the pressing. They looked baggier and sloppier. I think the double-pleated example could do with a good pressing.

 

[rs525]

Thank you all for sympathizing with my body shape conundrum. The only other pair of pleated pants I currently have is these Berle Gray Tropical Wool double pleated trousers with cuffs. These specifically have a front rise of 12 3/4" and I did have them slightly altered at the same person who did the double pleat khakis. I think the problem is the person I went to did a poor job balancing it and I'll try someone else. Again sorry for the poor quality of the pictures.